Suzanne & Len (Text)

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I'm just going to start off by asking you what you think a typical Aussie is  and a typical French person  I'll get
       you to answer for your respective nationalities
We might get in trouble with each other 
um

I grew up in in a small country town and  it was full of what you'd call  what people would stereotypically call
       um  Ockers Bogans beer drinkers footy players um
Do you know what Ockers and Bogans are
No but
Ockers is some someone that goes how are you going mate
yeah like
mate come on mate 
 yeah
that’s a bit rough
like the singlet and the
Yeah and er
 kind of
Sometimes not even the singlet just just the belly
Yeah
The rug and a and a couple of tinnies
A few tattoos maybe
mm yeah um and a bogan is sort of somebody that um  usually has a packet of cigarettes under their um
Ah yeah okay
Tee-shirt um
Yeah
And wears wears moccasins and and their pyjamas around

you know if you want to see bogans you need to go to Moe um in Gippsland
Ah OK
It's the bogan capital of Victoria

nay the world

that's my
and is that what you think a typical Aussie is
Um yeah I would say
is that what you think outsiders think Australians are
L;    Um yeah I reckon yep larrikins
Was that your image of an Australian before you came
Not before I came 

Well I'm sure in France you know when you think about an Australian everybody's gonna think about a very athletic person
       like full of muscles and er 
 that's right
and er and and sun tanned and blond you know on the beach with the surfboard and all that now I've been to Australia
       and  well you've got some of those
mm
but that's not what what I would call a typical Aussie person not any more I would yeah follow what you're
       saying… the  beer drinker  follows footy and  yeah doesn't care much about what he’s wearing  on the street  and
       er they’re a bit macho I'd say
mm mm 
 Yeah I wasn't expecting that like I co I come from like France is a Latin country and I come from
       south of France which is even closer to Spain which is even more you know Latin
mm mm
And guys there you know every body is expecting those kind of people to be macho and when I came to Australia I had
        the Anglo Saxon people are not expected to be like that like men and er when I arrived I said oh well that's a
       different way of being a macho but ah you know I'm not saying they all are but that stereotype of
mm
Aussie bloke would be macho
yeah it's true actually that was my
yeah
understanding of Australians before I came because I'm English
Yeah
And I'd always thought that they were really macho and I found that they weren't as bad as I
mm
was expecting actually 
mm
it's interesting I'd forgotten that I used to think that
we’re very very sensitive
  well it depends like well like my boyfriend is Australian and you know if he was really macho I wouldn't be with
       him so
mm
they are not all all macho
yeah yeah whereabouts in France are you from
Toulouse
okay  right
yeah
So what do you think a typical French person is then Maybe we should get Len to answer that first
Um
Do you have an image of a French person
well I've only ever met French women I've never met an um French blokes I don't know
       um I have actually met a French guy yeah um veryum sort of postural maybe um
Postural
Yeah you get this idea that  you know and um maybe um sort of r rr rude maybe

I don't know um just that this is the kind of the yeah the images that are come to mind the sort of mad frothing
       um quick talking frog guy that's you know in in a bar serving wine going no You cannot drink here unless you
 
you English dog

yeah you know what I mean um it's really I don't know I've never really thought about that much but I guess um…
       yeah I guess someone that's fai a a um very articulate as well um a lot more sort of i I'd think that the 
       I'd think that the average French men was probably um better educated than the average Aussie bloke mostly
mm
say in in terms of the ways of the world and the way that you you know you view your surroundings maybe possibly I guess
       because you know it comes with having so many different um countries around you
yeah be I agree with that but… yeah we’re not as as lated as Australia is and like unless it is because of our
       history and all the wars we had and
mm
like being invaded and all that that it's true that we pay much more attention about what is going on in the world and
       not just only in France and and um the other day I had a um an American girl in my class and she said that French
       are very political and I completely agree with that we we love to debate about things and and argue like nicely but
       like argue but like giving you my point of view and give me your arguments and we are going to debate all that you know
       it's something we love to do like we’re having a good dinner that will last for three hours and eat a lot and drink a
       lot and just you know invent a new better world and share our ideas and yeah it's true that we love to do that um
       a typical French person it's hard because well I noticed here a type usually is like striped shirt and a
       moustache and the red thing and the bottle of wine and the baguette under the arm and

the bicycle or but umyeah you got some people like that  but they’re not all like that and it depends on which
       part of France you go and if you're in the city or the country well that's like here you know we described the typical
       Aussie man but you know they are all not like that it depends on where you go so
mm
mm
you said to me on the phone the other day that your boyfriend says to you that you are very French
Yeah 
What does it mean when he says that is it good is it bad is it what's he trying to say when he tells you that
Um I crack the shit very easily  when something's wrong you know ah we need to talk about but don't you think
       blablabla blablabla you know and he's like very Aussie compared to me you know I take things very everything’s very
       seriously and you know and he's like oh no worries you know and like and so that's why he says oh you're so European
       and but I tell him oh you're so Aussie you know   we act very differently and I talk about food a lot
Uhuh
 this is like a complete part of my life  umyeah I don't know oh right now I don't know but yeah
       this these sort of things um OK have you um have you travelled a lot overseas Len no
No
What do you think you would miss about Australia if you went I guess it’s hard if you haven’t been
um
overseas but
I don't think I'd miss much at all except for um the beach because I  love going to the beach and soaking my body in it
       and stuff like that sort of like  um my grandmother’s in Torquay um up on the co on the Great Ocean Road and
       yeah my my best the best childhood memories like I always think about being on the beach and on the Fisherman's
       bay and that's where my my grandad he um they retired down there he was the minister in the church and that's where they
       went and  it was like um he used to be an angler and stuff and yeah I us I used to love going to his beach that
       he used to I used to call my grandad's beach that's the thing that's the only thing I'd miss besides that I hate this
       country… I really do and I can't wait to leave
why
I just it's so I don't know it's like um I don't think that everyone feels like this but  as a collective
       group of people Australians see us see themselves like kind of like we’ve got so much and and you know we deserve to
       keep it to ourselves
yeah
it’s like you know thinking we’re an island fortress and I just the attid like I said I'm from a small town but I
       think small town mentality sort of running
yeah
around everywhere I mean I meet a lot of people that are very open minded but as a whole I mean it's really hard to escape
       from that sort of like
yeah
um and I mean I'm not sure what it is like in other countries but yeah some times this place really gives me the
       shits  just our attitudes and stuff like that I just think sometimes it's really fake because we like we you know
       we can there is all this macho-ism and and being athletic and you know surfing having barbies and all that which
       is great but um I dunno it seems it is probably because of it's that's probably why I want eventually when I
       travel like when I finish um Uni and stuff and do some writing just because um I guess I can't really say what
       it would be like to leave Australia unless I did it but yeah I just sort of wanna see the way other people view their
       outside world rather than I mean I think it's probably because we are so isolated in certain ways but dunno yeah
       you'd think with globalisation and all that sort of stuff and heaps you know of barriers and stuff being a lot easier
       to to go through um with sort of that attitude would change but I don't think I mean it's obvious with the way that
       politically we’ve handled sort of  refugees and immigration and all that and that like like the country was based
       on on the notion that we're white and we’re gonna be young white and free
yeah
and that's the white like the white Australian policy and stuff
yeah
and that's still permeates and it re it kinds of bugs me like it really does 
 yeah
um like a lot of people would say Australia’s a great country but some of the people are you know we’re just you
       know they're great people but it's like one of my best friends Jim he's a farmer and he is one of the nicest guys
       you'll ever meet really generous and kind when it comes to things like um anything to do with something that he’s not
       sure about it's like it's evil or it's wrong um things like we always have arguments about aboriginal land rights
       and all that sort of stuff and he’s like no man if they if they come and take my land they will have to fight me for
       it 'cos we we took it off them and you know if people want to invade us and like um that's the way he talks
       but and and thousands and thousands of people think the same way
mm
and I just can't understand it so and that what really shits me
yeah but  it goes back to this question of like culture and education like things we just talked before thatthey're very down to earth I think Australians I'm not saying it's a it's a bad thing but
mm
that's just the way they are and maybe in a way they are happier than every other people because they're just you know
       they just just think about what they have like their everyday life and er and then all the rest is it’s not
yeah
my problem
I think that’s it
and in a way well you know they don't  that's why they have this no worries because well I don't care about the
       other worries so
yeah
Um but in another way that you know that prevents them from o  to open themselves to the to the world and try to
       understand what's going on and maybe … be a bit less scared of what's what they don't know and what's different and
       er yeah
yeah people like shut themselves off regardless of whether they've learnt something whether they understand it they'll
       but doesn't mat doesn't change what we know what you've learnt what you've understood I mean 'cos we all get taught
       about you know equality and all that
mm
sort of other things at school and you know in life but when it comes down to it it's it's your sorts of actions and
yeah 
 y your reaction to sorts of things that have still got that you know let's keep ourselves away from the
mm
outside world because you know we might we don't we we might not like what we see you know when we look
yeah
at ourselves from the outside in or something I don't know
yeah it's funny ‘co yesterday I had to er visit the school I 'm gonna do
       my teaching practice at and it's a it's a state school but it's a selective girl school and the teacher I'm gonna work
       with was saying um so she teaches French and she was saying ah I've done things about the French revolution and
       about the Louvre which is a big museum and like a lot of cultural and history things she said because if  and she said
       herself if you don't do that she’s not she 's Australian but she's from Latvia or something originally like
       she came here when she was probably very young and now she's I guess in her fifties  but she said because if you don’t
       if I don't do that they don't know anything like they don't care about you know learning about culture and all that so I
       was ah okay and then in that school she told me ah three quarters of the students are from Asian and Indian
       background and she said because you know they're the  they're the people who care about education she said the
       Australians they don't really care like education is not important for the parents if their if their children succeed
       or it's not very important whereas the Asians you know they all want to be doctors and they want to be successful and go
       to the prestigious universities and all that so it was funny to hear that from an Australian person but
I I think that's that 's starting to become a pretty common thought about like
       um especially I mean it's always and people always sort of put um Asians and stuff into this little bracket that’s 
 yeah
you know that you know want to be successful and
yeah
and take us take over Australia

and er and soon you know they'll come her in boats from Indonesia and hooligans um you know it's pretty scary
well I think it's international like we’ve got a lot of Asian migrants in France as well and this they’ve got this
       stereotype to be hard workers
mm
as well over there 
 mm I think that is true though but I mean I know some real slack arse students that are Asian and
       you know they just sit around smoking bongs and drinking
mm
beer like everyone else so 
 mm
um but and a lot of people ex ex like I know this guy Vietnamese guy and his father was is really strict and and
       he studies pretty hard but he's like I don't want to be a fucking lawyer

you know
but h his parents want him to do this
yeah and he’s sort of doing it like doing it half-arsed and he got himself into heaps and
       heaps of trouble he because I think he just like screwed with his head but um yeah you do get that I people do
       I think people just generally think that Asians work harder
yeah 
 and Aussies are the slack arses
yeah
they don't care too much
well apparently that teacher 
but um
she was saying
oh yeah it’s not necessarily true I just
yeah
maybe we just don't have the we haven't got the tools that you sort of get over hundreds of years of I don't
       know things being passed down ‘cos it yeah I think Australia's we're I mean even though we’re predominantly
       an Anglo-Saxon sort of culture 
 yeah
or Anglo-Celtic or whatever um you you're still we're still pretty new sort of  you know … you develop  I don't
       know I guess a psyche as a as a as a nation or country or something like that and I dunno and the only thing
       people sa people are s starting to um forget or not understand what even being Australian is now because um um
       people would say I'm an Australian because but then  an Asian guy that's lived in the country all his life you’d
       still assume that he was he emigrated here  you know somewhere or you know got out of a  one of our detention
       centres or somewhere like that um but yeah I mean it you could see some Asian guy and say he’s an Australian but
       you probably still don't look at him as an Australian I dunno well you wouldn't go automatically oh Aussie
mm 
 you know
yeah
you’d go oh Asian
yeah 
 or Asian Aussie
yeah

do you think it works our multicultural society in Australia do you think it's um or do you think it works more so
      here than in France for example are we more tolerant here or are we still just as racist
it depends it it'sit's dealt differently I guess um  we don in France we don't have such a thing as you
      know multiculturalism like a big thing that is re officially part of the country and like 
 mm
you had a multiculturalism minister at one stage or I don't know if you still have one but um so it's not such an
      official thing in France but um… I know that in some ways … we’re more tolerant over there and in some other ways …
      Australians are more varied um I don't  I'd say in France people mix more you would
mm
you know you would er more easily have friends of different cultural backgrounds and er  whereas here well they it has
      a lot to do with the schools the schooling system  like in France like 90% of the the children go to state schools and
      you go to the school um nearest to your place and all that so 
mm
you you will mix with a lot of different people whereas here you know you've got this system of independent schools and
      private schools so
yeah
where y the the classes they don't mix that much they’re not erm yes I'd say in France you'd have more opportunities
      for a child you know to grow up with Arabic people or Chinese or whatever and make friends and all that but um but
      different things like for example th that was on the French news a couple of days ago because in that states schools
      um you are not allowed to show those schools its state and  a long time ago they separated the state and the church
      okay
mm
and everything that had to do with the state like you could

I don't know how you say it in English but you’re not allowed to show any religious preference or anything 
 mm 
 so if you go to the state school you're not allowed to show any religious preference
It's secular isn’t it 
 I dunno 
yes um um er er they do it here like if you um … iflike we used to have religious instruction when
      I was in primary school and then they banned it like they did it in my school anyway because my dad got really angry 
      with the um the principle for saying you know well how can you like come in here and drill this crap into my kid  you
      know and then he has to come home and I have to like thump it out of him 
yeah 
you know he believes in the devil 'cos you know according to him that's me … but I think um I dunno
      Australian s a Australia’s weird because like ah we are to a certain extent a racist country and you can say that
      honestly and openly because if you just look at our history and the sort of  um principles and a what went on and how we
      built like a nation
yeah
just even at you know the princi you the things that were written down like you
mm
know the Australian settlement I think it that people call it you know the white Australia policy
mm
tariff protection all that sort of um er I think  we've  because we've  Australians are pretty can be pretty
       open minded and like 'cos we are so laid back it's like yeah yeah cool and but it ma it's like gives you this I'm not
       racist but you know  but you can still say you know you can say you can make jokes about Chinese people and
yeah 
 you know pick on  we've got this guy Long upstairs Long Shen and he's um he’s he's a I think he's done a PhD
       in philosophy or something in Chinese he's a great bloke but he you know he's like this  and since he's been here
       he’s like I I  I've known him for two years since he's worked here and I don't know why the hell he's working upstairs
       but um 'cos he's probably heaps better than that but he like you know he’s like how are you going and whenever he
       whenever he leaves everyone goes “oh no ploblem”

and he doesn't mind that but that's the sort of  the the sa
yeah
it's like making a joke because it's just a joke and that’s alright but there's the und these underlying sort of the
       end and I think that’s why it's been sort of hal semi acceptable and because we’re like that’s our laconic laid back
       attitude and so we can get
yeah
get away with anything because we can just make a joke like make light of anything
yeah
and you don't see the seriousness of of you know all the implications
yeah
that that has … um  that’s like you know wogs nibs gooks erm you know daggy dagger you can call a wog  a wog and he
       won't care unless he's like um Hungarian or something

and then he will probably thump you with a 

and um  yeah like not all you know I’ve m m m what like you say  his name’s Marinko Branda and he was
       Serbian and he  he was extremely racist becau and you know more more so towards Croatian people
mm
there's a Croatian girl up upstairs and every time she’d walk past he'd be going  he hates
mm
Asians and you know rarara
that's like
VERY open minded guy great guy but he um he if you called him a wog he would go absolutely apeshit  but um there's um
       the Italian I live in Kings street and there’s lots of   but I never ever use that word just 'cos I'm scared  they
       can they call themselves wogs and that but sometimes you can't get away with it I mean I'm nice to them because I I give
       them beer bottles and they give me um home made pasta sauce

but yeah it's pretty strange I dunno
yeah
and I’ve I've always thought about that like how can we get away with doing that sort of stuff and that's just the way we
       are
Yeah
well what I wa I was saying that they deal differently both countries with this kind of thing and that 
mm
here I guess it's the same you're in a school you which is not religious then they say oh you're allowed to you know
       practice whatever you want so they … they allow er for example a Muslim girl to come to the school with her veil on on
       her head because they say we are not a religious school  whereas in France we're not a religious school so you are not
       allowed to come with it because that's showing
mm
your that you be you um you belong to that religious community and you're not because that would be trying you know 
       so that's  they have to deal with the same problem like
mm
but they it’s funny to see that they deal with it in the complete opposite way
yeah 'cos you had that huge case
for the same reason 
 yeah
we're not religious so
yeah
okay that's fine you can wear your stuff we don't care and you can wear your cross around your thing or whatever but the
       other's like no nobody has to you know
mm 
 yeah
you don't have to show anything
yeah
well
yeah
that's funny
yeah ‘cos there was that famous case in France a few years ago 
yeah
with the girl with the veil and the
there's one again at the moment
ah okay right
so that's why I brought it up because I saw it on telly
yeah I think in Australia you can  everyone can get thrown together and we don't have a problem with that it's the it's
       underlying
yeah
you know what I mean
yeah
it's when the jokes and the and the dirty looks come out you know and I don't trust that guy because
yeah
you know that sort of thing
yeah
I don't know
It's interesting I’ve got a friend here at the moment who said I’m sure there are um there are a lot a lot of Muslims on
       campus this year
mm
and they’re all wearing the the complete veil so there’s just the face showing
yeah yeah
and she’s saying that that there's much more this year then ever before and she reckons it's political now rather than
       religious
yeah 
 and I just thought it was it was even interesting that she said that because before September the 11th no one
       would have even dreamt of that
mm
they would have just said oh there are lot of Muslims on campus this
mm
year but we've now we immediately jump to the conclusion that they're now making a political statement and I just thought
       that
yep
was interesting that
yeah
a lot of things have changed since then
yeah
um  it's like  people thinking that re that refugees um the blood big child children overboard stuff and
       they're like well if they wanna if they wanna come to the country and you know um blow stuff up and all that I’m like
       they're just

little kids in a in a boat  but people think like that or they say it I don't know if they think like that but they say
       it you know what I mean
yeah 
and it’s s you know sort of a
yeah
separation between I dunno it’s like time and space don't make any sense here 
 the thing is that the medias in Australia the media is well it's different from France as well and for
       example if this thing had happened in France we would have like they would talk about it on the news or in the newspapers
       but on television we would have like big debates like we've got a lot of um … shows like we don’t which are not
       entertainment you know but they just take a topic and they de they invite people from you know that board and people
       from you know with different ideas and oh okay let's all argue about it like what I was saying we like to do at home well
       we've got shows for that on television and plenty plenty and um and you know if I'm sure for a month we would have had
       shows about this and people arguing and debates and all that whereas on Australian television they show it on the news
       but you know and that's it they’re not gonna discuss it in whatever Rove live or whatever other shows there is you know
       you don't have a place for that on Australian television 
but but the thing is ‘cos we um have a very low tolerance for crap I
       think it's it's been   Australians would look at a show like that and after a while some people would be interested but
       if there was so much they’d be going oh it's just a whole heap of wankers talking crap
yeah
that's what they'd say
yeah
don't you think
it’s just that I I think as well Australian has a very sort of anti intellectual society
yep it's pretty
to be to be an academic is a is a negative thing 
 oh okay 
whereas the Europeans
yeah
have a such different attitude to
yeah
education and academia and I think that it probably comes from that as well
yeah I don't know if you notice when I speak li my both my
       parents were both English teachers so obviously you know I learnt how to speak probably but I've got one of the foulest
        I I grew up in a small town like I said and um … I find that I interchange between my Ockerisms and and um you know
       speaking sort of fluently and correctly um specially like working in the library um you know when I'm seeing ‘cos I I
       work for admin and stuff and you know when I'm seeing the chief librarian I’m going oh hello Mr Grey how are you and
       then when  as soon as I get home I’m oh fffuck

unreal is there any beer you know and I can't help that I do it all the time like you’ve probably noticed it already
yeah
it's really strange
yeah
so I don't know what the hell is going on
it's like we talked about it in class yesterday um in France you would address to your teacher especially at uni like
       Doctor Blabla or Mr or Miss Blabla where as here you know hey John and Sally or whatever their name is they don't call
       me Doctor oh my god you know it’s er
mm mm Johnno
yeah and in Europe oh my God if I went to my teacher and I hey Peter  excuse me you know
do they do the do the blokes call um them their friends and that like you know do they shorten their names like because my
       name's MacDonald and no-one ev no-one ever called me Macka but I wished they did ‘cos then you know ‘cos everyone else
       had Johnno and Macka you know Smithy and all that do they do that
not as much as here
no everyone has got a got a sort of nickname
yeah sometimes but not as much as here and here everybody’s got like a thousand
       different nicknames
yeah  I've got Mockfish
yeah 
um Tosspot oh what was the other one um the Artsman ‘cos I’m always falling off stuff and bouncing and people call me
       oh and like some people call me whatever they damn well like not always that nice um so people used to call me Lenno the
       bondage clown I don't know why I used to do a lot of theatre and I did this really strange thing once and it kind of
       stuck but um  who knows
yeah
I think we like that kind of
it's hard to follow when you come from overse like or from a different group like for example I entered my boyfriend's
       group of friends and sometimes you know they’re discussing about Oh I remember when this person did this and that and
       that and I was and I'm like to my boyfriend  do I know that person he’s like yeah yeah he’s like that's whatever John or
       whatever and I’m like but you didn't call him John he said ah no we call him like that and then like a week later they
       're gonna say a new story and about a guy named blabla and they say yeah and I'm going to be the same who are they
       talking about John but now he's John or he's er Smithy but he’s not and he’s like no but he’s called that as well it's
       like they all have got thousands of nicknames
yeah
I dunno we've got this really a a friend of ours his name Thumbgrave so we call him gravy mostly but he’s also got a
       name he’s we call him shed boy because he um he actually lived in a shed but then so now Shedboy is whoever whoever’s
       living in the smallest room or in some dodgy bungalow  is Shedboy there's always a Shed there always has to be a
       Shedboy… at the moment  it's my mate Ox or we all we call him Roxanne Roxy you know Bullocks Pies 'cos he likes he he's a
       and or Pieman you know it's just it’s endless
yeah
this is just as weird for an English person 
 yeah
don't worry about it  so much to as well
ah okay          
and he and he’s also Trusty Blue-eyes um what does he call himself something toast Darth Toastman or something I dunno
yeah
he he’s he's got more nicknames than anybody because he's a he’s an idiot but now he's Shedboy you know so we called him
       Roxy but we still call him Roxanne you know it’s a I think it's just something because we can't think of anything else
       you may as well just you know bounce these stupid names off each other and laugh about it
yeah
it's not always affectionate 
they aren't
quite quite the opposite um … I was just interested because you know I d that's we that I think that’s a that’s
       predominantly an Australian thing don't you reckon um 
and it's not it's particularly for man
mm
girls don't have so many nicknames or don't have any at all 
 yeah I don't think they like it because there's this girl

um Karyn Stanley
 for men
there’s this she works in interlibrary loans upstairs and um I’ve been like I've had a few bad oh excuse me my tummy um I
       thought she was going to run into me at work lately ‘cos you know I'm always genuinely pleasant and a few people like
       I’ve found a few people stab me in the back and I got this they offered me this job that I 'm doing now and people
       thought I was getting special treatment because they offered me the job but I've been doing it for six months or so in a
       t in a temporary position and um I l I went crazy  and I got sort of told off ‘cos I act I was upstairs and I was
       going you lot can go and fuck and I’m going am I saying this and it was understandable I spoke to my boss about it and
       said you know and there's also this mad English man who fosses about who fixes all the photocopiers I don I don't know
       if you've seen him I always cov I always do his job for him and I r I resent the fact he gets paid twice as much as
       me and he never does any work and he but he alw every time I slip up he dobs me in so I had a go at him too and then I
       sort of thought oh I'm not going to let any of this get to me and I think I know I’ve been more overly sort of I’ve just
       been like saying g’day to everyone how’s it going good day and there's this chick up there sorry chick um called Karyn
       Stanley and today I’ve said oh how you going Stanno and she she just went

what the mmm are you on about and um and um and I said it again and she still gave me the same look so I think
mm
she was not impressed I'm going to call her Stanno for the rest of   what's wrong with Stan eh
I'm sure a guy would have been like the normal thing to hear
yeah and she's like mm don't like that but I'm still going to do it though
it's like the mate thing isn't it
L;    yep
I think that's more bloky than
mm
girly as well I do hear it  girls doing it sometimes
sometimes yeah b
but it's mainly and it's mainly men to men as well not
yeah
men to another girl 
 mate's even being extended now we use mate boss chief all that sort of stuff
oh okay
yeah people say chief a  lot how are you going chief but um mate mate is um just a bit too bland now chief’s chief
       most people use if you don't know someone's name and you’ve met ‘em like twenty times and you just can't remember their
       names how you going chief  or boss is just I always call people boss thanks boss especially like if someone’s serving
       me I think people like ca being called boss but um I never I don’t use mate that much
yeah chief 's quite English actually that’s interesting
chief
that’s come over yeah we all do it
yeah do you
yeah
right
um I'm just thinking of my brother he’ll do that all the time
ah yeah ‘cos yeah I got  this guy came to I interviewed a guy for a room that I had for rent and h he was very um he's
       what I call a geezer yeah mate yeah bloody oath and he he was calling me chief too
yeah yeah
chief you know geezer I like that
yeah my brother's a geezer too

yeah and they've got that weird accent this weird way of speaking geezers
       are cool though I just don't think I could live with one

this guy was like brrrrr oh yeah I could fix this if you've got a TV eh wicked

I went no I just sort of was picturing him like him every day like crapping on like that I’m going nah I'd kill him

I’m not racist but geezers I mean

just changing the topic a bit what do you um how important do you think it is to always give your opinion or your
       point of view you were just talking about that earlier  like in France you know  you  like to share
yeah
your point of view … do you think you sort of do it  a lot more than Australians or do you think Australians  do it


mostly  I reckon Australians give their opinion a lot and usually it’s just  some  idiotic sort of crap they’re 
       like you know whe if we don’t like someone we’ll sort of it say it um  I generally  like I’m a bit French like that


well I
I love debating and arguing and
it’s
doing it in a nice sort of way 
 it’s just that we debate and argue about different things
right  okay
it’s not that we do it more or they do it more but er
right
does that mean  you just you like the political sort of stuff you think
yeah something that Australians wouldn’t do in the  but I would say it
       would be just a different   the Australians would argue about … uh … I’ll b I’ll be very stereotypical here but
       like … I I like VB as my favourite beer oh you’re kidding  prefer Carlton Cold or you know things like 
       and they would argue but
mm
for fun
mm
not that they take it seriously but for fun you know like … um … yeah
mm
but I don’t think we argue  I dunno … or maybe an Australian would give up more easi if that was about a serious thing
       that
mm
it would debate  er an Australian would give up more easily 
 yeah we’d be going I can’t be bothered with the theme or something
       I’ve done it
yeah  yeah  yeah  that’s it  exactly
I’ve been there  through  I’ve had it
yeah
mm
it’s like yeah yeah you won don’t care whatever 
 yeah
you know whereas in France we would be  aargh  

yeah yeah ‘cos it was the way you said you you’re quite French for that then do you think you  maybe share your opinion
       more than other Australians 
 ah  oh I just try  I
do you think you’re quite un-Australian
I always try to um  you know  I’m a a bit of a l bit of a  people call me a bit of a nutter actually … ‘cos
       like you know  I’ll basically say anything to anyone and I don’t really m think about oft think often how it
       affects them but I’m u ‘cos usually I’m pleasant and stuff sometimes people go  oh like you know I really enjoy
       having a good conversation and
mm
sort of  um it’s like with my friend s’like you know I said he’s a bit  like anti-Aboriginal and all this sort of
       stuff and I go and sit down with him and sort of tell him what I know about it and why I think this way 
mm
and he’ll be going but no man no it’s just as simple as that whereas I’ll try to  go through the whole  process of
       letting someone
mm
know wh er  I think I’m always trying to justify stuff Like  I will explain something in five different ways  to
       get the same sort of thing
I do that I do that 
and because I just don’t think you understand where
yeah
I’m coming from  you know what I mean and and I want to make sure you do  and I don’t care how bored you are

you’re gonna listen 
 I do that too
until you understand
and  that’s one of these values of French  it’s like you know I repeat things all over and over again in the
       different way like I wanna make sure he’s got it  he’s like yeah I got it but

no but you know you don’t understand why I’m saying this and I want you to e
yeah
I wanna be sure that you understand why it’s that

because you know and the consequences and the blah and I go over on the whole topic and
yeah
he’s like yeah okay whatever forget it you know get over it okay

people do that to me as well they’re like shut up Len

yeah but you would do that  as well
mm  oh yes oh yeah like I  take out  for people listening to me I’m not listening to anyone else 
yeah oh okay   you know the expression “to sit on the fence” do you know that
yeah
no
could you explain it to Suzanne
sitting on the fence is where you basically … it’s sort of like being neutral  but you um
mm
… will not make up your mind either way  it’s like um on an issue you might have … you might have an  something
       to say on each  o either way like um … it’s like people call bisexuals like sitting on the fence not quite sure which
       way to go know see what I mean

yeah
um  yeah  is  is that what you se the way you see it
yeah  that’s yeah or just  yeah  not  not giving your opinion not committing
       
  you can yeah well you can be either way 
mm
you can still say something but y you’re not
mm
really  you’d be going well I agree with this but I also agree with
mm
that so I’m gonna sit on the fence
yeah
okay 
 so is it um … does it have a negative connotation or positive or…
er…
neither one of them in particular
‘cos I don’t think you can always be a fence sitter  but I think  but I think it’s a bit more of a negative thing 
       it’s not  if you just said you were neutral  or passive or  whatever then it’d  it’s a bit more  er  I don’t
        I don’t see there’s any negativity with that but I think yeah if you get called a fence sitter it’s like you’re too
       gutless to  you know ma take a stand
mm
you know what I mean
yeah  but in the other way you might not know  really about what
mm
the other people are talking about and  or … do you sometimes
or you know what’s happening but you don’t know why it happened like that and you know  what  what happened before
       that and what could explain this so you know you don’t wanna … take a position on that like
right
but that’s what I would do like if I don’t know much about what they’re talking about 
 mm
er like if you’d asked me okay what do you think about … um a problem in  the Middle East  and I’m taking an example
       like you know like the Israelis and the Palestinians and  and … I’d I’d rather have someone say no sorry I don’t
       know much about the  you know the history and all  all this ty and how it all started and all that so you know I’m
       not gonna express any  than someone who doesn’t know and say no the Israelians are right
yeah
or
yeah
the Palestinians are right for whatever reasons
yeah  do you have a similar expression in French
it was  I  I was thinking about it when you asked the question then … probably but  it doesn’t come to my mind at
       the moment
maybe the French don’t sit on the fence
mm  doesn’t sound like it

um  I  I  I think everyone would know that term here though
mm
‘cos no-one  it’s like no-one likes a fince fence sitter  ‘cos i yeah I think it’s more  it is very negative
       it’s like you  you gutless wonder you w you know you’re too scared to tell us what you think or  you know  we
       know what you think but you’re too
yeah yeah to stand for what you really   
scared to say sort of thing 
 yeah
yeah
well one last question and then I’ll let you escape … what do you think a good person is if you had to write a list of ten
       qualities what would you 
a type that’s just like me

okay give us ten of those qualities then those  those qualities that make you perfect Len what are they

I didn’t say perfect  good person 
 good person
um I think … you need to be … well not  you can’t serve yourself  all the time I think something 
       that’s something  to be a good per to  I think to get anywhere you sort of have to  the people that do it all the
       time regardless of how successful they are give me the shits … um I think you need to be …able to … empathise with
       other people
mm
… um I think you can’t really … be considerate  or u:nderstand how someone’s feeling unless you can put yourself
       in their shoes I think when you do that your attitudes change to certain things  um …I think you should um go
       to church every Sunday

no I don’t  um  I’m not really sure at all I just you know 
 yeah it’s hard to find ten things 
 um
well you don’t have to find ten you can just
yeah
think of some of the most important qualities
the first thing like we have a  a f
eat lots of apples 
 a French saying and I really abide to it like it  it’s just a saying so you know  but  I really think
       about  I always think about it it’s don’t do to other people what you wouldn’t
yeah
like other people to do to you so 
 that’s from the Bible
and I think if … w is it well I’m not very religious so I don’t know where it comes
       from
yeah no it  I know the saying but it actually originates from the Bible
but I think that’s  a  the  you know the basic of … mm 
 everything
yeah
like to  to live in a society that’s f
yeah 
 I use that when I talk to my friends about refugees and stuff  I’m like  ‘cos they’re like let them starve
       if  you know they get taken to Macdonald’s and ra ra ra … and  or  and I’m like what would you do if y someone
       came up to you  murdered your best friend or girlfriend or mother in front of you and then dragged you by your heels
       around ra ra and but you had a small ch there was a small chance that you could  you know escape that what would
       you
mm
do and they’re like I’d  you know I’d  I’d  it wouldn’t happen to me because I’d kill ‘em before they got a chance
       to 

I think yeah you do unto others and  yeah … doesn’t have to it doesn’t necessarily mean that you know it’s a religious
       thing but it’s just a pretty it’s one of those things  some of the stuff in the Bible makes sense
I think so
yeah  yeah … yeah
yeah
I had to read it for Ancient Civilisations when I studied that
mm
but my Grandma’s very religious  so yeah I’ve read the Bible a few times
mm
but I don’t think that make  ‘cos I know other people that read the Bible and it’s 
and  yeah
but um  ‘cos sometimes
yeah
being religious is an excuse  and 
yeah
yeah  but um  what else makes you good I guess if you um  yeah eat  eat all the five food groups … make sure you clean your teeth every day

never come to work with bad stinky breath 

um … and I think um  I hate backstabbers  I reckon backstabbers are bad people
mm 
 mm
yeah
‘cos they ma they obviously make me angry because I g I almost got the sack because of backstabbers
mm
because I went crazy … it just makes me so angry
mm
yeah
I think if you gotta hav if you’ve got a real p issue with somebody and it’s becoming a huge big problem but they
       don’t know about
mm
it
mm
you’ve got to go and tell them  you know what I mean
mm
someone needs to approach it  and if   if you haven’t done that but you’re constantly stabbing someone in the back
       it’s ‘cos you’re too gutless to address the issue 
 yeah
so  and that  you know I reckon … yeah  there’s heaps of different ways to be brave and being brave’s go I
       think it’s a good thing  and that’s  I think that’s doing stuff that you normally wouldn’t do but you know that’s
       something that sh someone should do and you don’t know if anyone’s gonna do it so maybe  y you have to you know
       what I mean
mm
c makes ‘em m run the hard mile sort of thing  yeah … go the extra yard
okay well another nice thing …