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Mark & Kylie (Text)

Item metadata
Speaker:
participant,Mark,19 participant,Kylie,25
Description :
Participants were informed that the researcher was looking at the general differences between French and Australian English speakers’ conversational styles, and were not given any further specific information. The researcher's own participation in the conversation was limited to asking questions on certain topics to initiate the conversation between the two speakers, and to adding comments from time to time. The participants were asked to talk to each other rather than to the researcher, although she was often included in the conversation. An attempt was made to ensure that the conversations were as similar as possible in terms of set-up, length and topics discussed, (although not all of the topics were covered in every conversation). To this end the researcher had prepared a list of topics on which to ask the participants for their opinion; these included such issues as life in Australia, the difference between French and Australian English speakers, multiculturalism, the role of honesty in a relationship, the importance of expressing one’s opinion, and the difference between tu and vous (the familiar and polite forms of you in French) for the French speakers.
ns1:ParticipantRelation
strangers
Participants :
Mark (male, 19, Australian, student, no time spent in France), Kylie (female, 25, Australian, student, no time spent in France)
Audience :
Small Group
Communication Context :
Face to Face
Related Document :
Mark & Kylie (Text), Text Mark & Kylie (Original), Original Mark & Kylie (Raw), Raw http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/source/LaTrobeMark#Audio
Interactivity :
Dialogue
Word Count :
9285
Mode :
Spoken
Plaint Text :
http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/items/LaTrobeMark#Text
ns1:Setting
Unfamiliar to both (a room at university)
ns1:lengthOfRecording
44 minutes 26 seconds
ns1:numberOfPeople
3
Creator
Kerry Mullan
Identifier
Mark & Kylie
Title
Mark & Kylie
Discourse Type :
Interactive Discourse
Recording Date :
17.06.2001
Document metadata
Custodian :
Kerry Mullan
Data Owner :
Kerry Mullan
Transcript format :
DOCX
File :
Transcrp - Mark & Kylie.docx
ID :
LaTrobeMark#Text
Name :
Mark & Kylie - Transcript
Creator
Kerry Mullan
Extent:
9285
Identifier
Transcrp - Mark & Kylie-text.txt
Title
Mark & Kylie - Transcript LaTrobeMark#Text
Type
Text

Transcrp - Mark & Kylie-text.txt — 43 KB

File contents

The first thing I was just gonna ask you is what do you think a typical Aussie is if someone  if someone asked you to
explain a typical Australian how would you do that

mm interesting … typical Australian … I think it’s just really hard to … generalise like that I don’t … you know there’s  there’s people in Australia that um
… are very well educated are very well travelled erm very well spoken … don’t even like sort of speak with a well spoken British
accent and then there’s Australians … who live in the outback … who speak almost their own language

mm

erm you know I just think it’s such a big place and there’s so many different people here that … it’s hard to say
what a typical Australian is because what  what one typical Australian may be  someone else might be nothing like that so
…

Yeah  I think I agree with you Kylie



Erm  Just trying to think of … well ob obviously there’s no one typical Australian, but perhaps there’s stereotypes
Do you want us to tell you about some of those 

Absolutely

Mark Yeah 

 Yeah

Alright, there’s  there’s the Paul Hogan stereotype

mm

That one’s … well known in America

Kylie                                  mm

and the UK

mm

Sorry I shouldn’t tap the table

That’s alright 

um

Kylie     That’s the way we um … market ourselves overseas as well we  as the erm ocker bogans that like the eh what’s his
name  Steve Irwin  you know the Crocodile Hunter 

 Yep

He’s one of the most popular he’s probably passed Paul Hogan in popularity stakes overseas everyone knows him … and
there would be so many people who would think that he’s a typical Australian man if they’ve not been here

Yeah … although I think most intelligent Americans probably know that not all Australians are like him

You don’t know laughs

no erm

You might be surprised actually

yeah but um there are other stereotypes coming out like erm there a few Australians making
it sort of big in later movies just recently like Russel Crowe

mm

Ah Hugh Jackman  Who else  There’s a few more

Nicole Kidman

Yeah 

 Mm

well exactly

Mm

Yeah … and erm …  so they’re probably dispelling the old myth of  of feral Aussies
      sort of

Mm

being 

yeah

yeah

I’d like to think they were

Yeah

‘Cos it’s not an image that … it‘s embarrassing … if you’re overseas and they’re like you know

Mm

Is your dad’s name Bruce and your Mum’s name Sheila right



 yeah maybe a few of them but it’s not the way I want my country to be portrayed … but

Have you travelled overseas

Yeah

uhuh and do you find that’s what happens  Is that what  

Kylie                                                    Erm

Do you think that’s what peoples’ perception of Australians

A lot of

are

Yeah I was surprised that I thought that a lot of people thought that that’s  … but they were people who’d not
been here

Kerry Mm  Where were you

Mostly in London

Right

But travelling around Europe and Asia and Africa

Yeah

Erm … In Africa they just wanna know what your relation you are to America so that’s why they’re not really that
interested in here I don’t think

Yeah  It must seem a very long way away to them

Mm Mm

Have you travelled overseas 

No I’ve never I’ve never been overseas

Yeah

I’ve always lived in Australia never left

Yeah

Ah w I got a passport last year

yeah

just so that I  so that I have it when I wanna leave  because ah last year I turned 18

Mm

and so once you turn 18 you can get your passport for 10 years instead of f 5

Oh okay is that how it works

S:o I figured I’d get it now and then I’ll like be able to  you know to keep it till I’m 28

Yeah yeah  excellent 

Yeah

Yeah  Well just going back to stereotypes then what do you think  what’s your um idea of a stereotypical French person
or do you have one

Oh … a stereotypical French person Yeah with a  a beret and like a … there there used to be an ad on TV for for French
onion potato chips and they had

laughs

guys with French sticks on their back

uhuh

And erm like a beret and like a white striped white and blue striped t shirt

Uhuh Yeah

and um with stripes across it … and er speaking with a really really thick way out accent  Yeah  That’s
that’s a pretty typical stereotype  What do what do you think Kylie

Erm mine’s not a very good one unfortunately and it’s bad because I’ve met a lot of nice French people as well

Oh well we know that

but

French people aren’t really like that

Well I met a lot more … um … rude French and they’re  that’s what’s stayed in mind  particularly in Paris that um 
the service and you know try as I did to speak the language it didn’t get me very far and so … I think with my first thought of
a French person is um a touch of arrogance and … also that was drilled into me every day in England that that ‘cos they
you know they all just say “oh they’re so arrogant” so I think with um everyone saying that you start to believe it um … but
yeah there was also that nice  I always have this lovely picture of a woman riding through her small town and she’s got one of
those old bikes and the f couple of French sticks sticking out of her back um

Mm

basket or the front basket and … yeah there’s that nice side to it as well

Yeah  In what way were they rude can you

Erm they

Do you remember some specific examples or what you

they

thought was rude at the time

Erm … h u we went to a restaurant one night there was six of us and … clearly we couldn’t speak Engli er Fr
sorry couldn’t speak French and you know as much as we would say hallo and thank you and but we couldn’t order in French and the
menu was all in French and we stood there for like ten minutes and the waiter was getting really angry with us and he wasn’t
helping us out at all  and in the end we just thought it was easier to say six steaks and six chips ‘cos someone knew how to
say that and then he just said back in perfect English “Okay six steaks six chips and beer” … and and it was just like you’ve
spent ten minutes getting annoyed with us

Mm

we’re like  and you spoke English why didn’t you just help us out

Yeah

It was it was always when we were eating out

Mm

But  they were rude



I’ve got a similar story to that … um I did French in high school and the teacher told us that’s what happens they 
they pretend they can’t speak any English

Mm

And they try make you  speak French for them and they  when they’re perfectly fluent anyway

Yeah

‘cos they don’t like doing that  Breath A:h well I guess in Australia … we don’t know how to  like most 
people only speak s English

Mm

the majority of us … so we don’t learn other languages for the tourists …  so I wouldn’t expect it from the French … but
when they know it … already then it’s kind of nice to sort of  to say hello in … the native language

Mm

and … it’s it’s amazing how the French … they still get heaps of tourists

It’s the most visited country

    

in the world I think isn’t it France

Is it

Yeah

Possibly it’s certainly

Paris is definitely the most visited city

up there yeah

Mm

And now they’re … they’re they’re rude to the tourists

Yeah 

It doesn’t make any sense

Yeah I mean and er   I never get the pronunciation right but is it Champs Elysées

Uh huh

And that street  you are treated like dirt  and that is the main street  And what  I don’t why we the first time
the service was embarrassing I felt so low … and we went back a second time  and it was just as bad  it was like they were
grunting at us and … yeah when they  when a street like that relies solely on tourism but I guess they’re not relying on
repeat business 

Yeah 

Kylie               Because you’re just going

mm I’m

maybe once in your life 

 I’m told if you go over that side of the river  you get a lot of … good bargains

Mm  It’s always  that thing though you always want to go to the place that’s

yeah

a famous place and say that you’ve had 

Yeah

a coffee there and

and say you’ve been

Been treated badly 

   someone that knows it



 Yeah yeah 

 Yeah  apparently there’s a restaurant in London in Chinatown and they’re famous for that and people
go there … on purpose to be treated badly apparently they’re treated like absolute shit this  the waiters and everything and
that’s part of the attraction of this place that people go there just to see how bad it really is and

mm

it sounds horrific I’ve never been there

Mm

As yet

Mm

So I think it’s that kind of thing as well 

 But the Chinese being rude it’s just not as fun is it as the French being rude



Yeah  true

The way they do it it’s just a whole lot snootier

Yeah  Different

Yeah

Yeah yeah

In Chinese it’s just not right  just  you can’t explain it  just doesn’t have the same effect

No

They’re not elegant with it

No





That’s the thing that  it  it’s been joked about before the French can yell at you and it still sounds good

yeah

like they can get away with it probably ‘cos it still sounds … attractive

yeah yeah yeah … So what did you miss most about Australia when you were away

um … How long were you

the

gone for

Erm  two and half years … The honesty I think

Oh Okay

The honesty of people … But mo most will most people you can tell they either like you or they don’t like you … either
by the way they act or that they’ll tell you that

Mm

Erm … Whereas in … well I’m just going  I’m comparing this to England ‘cos that’s where I mostly lived … um
everyone pretends to be your best friend … It’s a lot of falseness there I think

Okay

whereas I’ve … one thing I’ve learnt from that is I think Australians generally are quite genuine

Right  H how did it sort of  manifest itself   I mean what  what made you feel that people were being false

… Um just a bit over the top … you know you might meet someone once and then the next time they’d be so excited to see
you and

Mm

you sort of think well I’m not that fascinating  surely you’re not that happy to see me you know like Idunno I mean it
wasn’t a big issue but it was just

yeah

Yeah but it was … and erm … maybe it was the work I … maybe it was the place I worked in ‘cos I worked there for 18
months and

Mm

Maybe um … I hadn’t been exposed to so much backstabbing in the workplace and maybe that’s just where I …

Mm

got it from

Yeah yeah yeah  It’s interesting ‘cos that was one of my other questions for much later is how important do you think
honesty is … erm … and I don’t mean sort of couples being faithful to each other but sort of in a friendship erm … where do you
think honesty cuts off and politeness comes in so if you  you know if your friend comes in … wearing something horrific  are
you actually going to say that looks

Mm

dreadful or are you just going to be polite about it  sort of … how do you  how do you see that balance what’s more
important for you  Would you always just be really honest and say

No

So if you thought …

No  because also it’s not my place to tell someone that … a apart from maybe one or two friends  if you’re out
shopping and you’d say ooh I don’t like that but  who am I to s… tell a friend or someone that that looks silly ‘cos they
might like it

uhuh

So I don’t that’s any of my business

Okay  so where do you see the cut off then between … sort of … when you stop being honest and when you should start
being polite

I think it depends how … how well … how close you are to the friend

Mm

‘Cos if it was a close friend of mine I wouldn’t say anything  … if I thought they looked terrible

Mm

What they were wearing unless they asked … And If they asked “What what do you think”  then I co then I’d just be
honest

Right

I’d say no you’d look much better in something else

Okay so you don’t … you’d find a nice way to tell them as well 

 Yeah 

 You wouldn’t just come out and say “oh that looks horrible”

mm yeah most of the time that’s what I’d do

right

but i it’s  I think that’s the idea if you … if you’re … if you’re a friend then you owe them your honesty …

mm

mm

‘cos if you lie to them  then  it’s just not right … friendship’s important

mm

I always that I can never ever work in a one of those fashion shops ‘cos I just can’t  I’m not a very good liar and
if someone said “Oh does this look good”  and you know all them say “oh that looks fantastic”

Yeah

whatever you try on  I couldn’t …

yeah

lie and say “yeah it does look good” when …  if if they’re asking for my opinion

Yeah  unless it’s commission-based and then …

Yeah well that  might be why they so readily 

 …… 

I could probably do it but I wouldn’t like it

No

It  it would just be … It would just be horrible

Mm

What about something like if someone lent you … say a good friend lent you a really good book or their favourite book …
and you read it and you just thought “I don’t really like this”  and they  when you give it back they ask what you think of
it  Would you tell them you didn’t like it or would you …

I would

You would

Yeah I would … because that’s not personal at all … that’s not judging their character or their personality … that’s just …

but if it’s their favourite book and they really like it isn’t that … you don’t

mm

see that as criticising

n … no

what they’re reading

no ‘cos I think that’s really dishonest to say yeah it was a great book just because …

mm

they liked it

well I’d think if they’re asking f for your opinion … why would they want you to lie

mm


if they say well why did you say that we well you asked



yeah if they don’t want anyone to be critical of it they shouldn’t ask in case

yeah

someone is

they wanted an honest opinion … they got it 

yeah

… but

… I know um  my parents go to the movies a lot and  my mum just loves everything she goes to and sometimes Dad will
be honest and say I didn’t like it and it’s like h:e’s said to her I don’t like you … she takes it so personally  that he
might not like a movie

yeah

… and I don’t  I just don’t … see why  you know she’s had no input into that sort of product so

yeah

it’s no judgement on her

but because she likes it maybe she takes that as being sort of as being

yeah

critical of her likes 

Kylie                  yeah

yeah

maybe

yeah … but then if she likes everything … it’s 

 yeah I think so

yeah … it’s interesting though what you said about the  the English because the French think the Australians are very
hypocritical … um … simply because we do this polite stuff so we wouldn’t tell someone that we thought they looked bad

mm

um  whereas they would … they’d just come straight out with it and they’re very direct and s sort of honesty comes
before everything else  which is why we often think they’re being rude

mm

because they would … they’d be honest in places where we would probably choose to be polite 

but

as well so

I think  ‘cos um  I forgot a perfect example was I worked for an accounting firm for 18 months in London and one of
the partners there was French and I worked on and off for him  he was French Mauritian

mm

um  and … in eighteen months he had six French secretaries that all quit in tears um



he almost had me in tears a few times … and I just thought he … his Frenchness made him a really bad person

mm

I think though he was a  he was so rude and abrupt he never was … um subtle or … he’d just say whatever he felt
and it  and it was … he upset everyone by being like that

yeah

er even the F even the six French secretaries who … must be used to  that

yeah 

 way maybe

yeah

but he would u he upset all of them and HE WAS

that’s interesting

worse to them …

yeah

than me  I think maybe ‘cos he thought they had that French connection and he could

yeah

 he could be more blunt

yeah

with them

yeah … ‘cos the French sort of um … their sense of hierarchy is much  they still have that sense of hierarchy
whereas

mm

most  I suppose Brits do a little bit but Australia’s really tried not to

mm

um so the French people who are bosses will come in and just order people around because they can do that … and of course
Australians take … they don’t take kindly to that at all

no

but then it’s interesting that obviously the French secretaires didn’t either so he must have been a really … extreme
case

mm

yeah  um … so thinking of opinions then do you think it’s always important to give an opinion

… no sometimes you’ve you’ve got to know when to shut up 

mm

but when you’re asked for an opinion then you know

when would you shut up

er well it depends who’s asking the opinion

 uhuh

‘cos if it’s someone you’re not gonna know … you can just not say anything … you know … depends if it’s just
you and them or if it’s … does anyone have an opinion on this  … yeah I mean if you think you might anger
someone and you don’t  you don’t care about whether you impress them or if you’re honest and they think you’re a horrible
person or … um … well doing the course that I’m doing it  you can’t not be opinionated  like … um  where our tutes are one
hundred percent arguments  that’s

right

all we do  I think the most important thing I’ve learnt is  if you’re gonna have an opinion on something know what
you’re talking about  and  when you were saying people should know when to shut up I think it’s  that’s true when people
get really loud about something like  I think that  you know that looking foolish ‘cos I’ve done it myself  if you get
really opinionated about something  and you actually d have nothing to back it up



like you don’t really know what you’re arguing about I mean like that  that’s when I’ve taught myself  to shut up …
unless I know  or think I know what I’m talking about

… what what do you think opinionated means  you just used the word there  how do you define opinionated I’ll
ask you the same thing

uni universal just um oh you  you’re gonna 

 I was gonna say  you  have … an opinion on everything … don’t necessarily share it all
the time but most of the time I reckon … the idea of someone who’s opinionated which you know  and they all  they 
they’re set in their w ways … someone who’s opinionated will already have their opinion sort of settled ahead … ready to
dish ‘em out … at any opportunity

mm I



agree with that  that it’s just um  an opinion that is strong often

yeah 

 everything you have an opinion on And you’re strong on  everyone of those … and that you don’t  can’t be
swayed  I don’t think it necessarily means that someone else’s opinion  you  you think is wrong … but you just don’t
 you think your way’s … more right

yeah … so

yeah

someone’s who’s opinionated does not have an open mind …

mm

… so you see it as a negative quality  someone being opinionated

yeah I think so

it has a negative connotation for you

w well it does because … um … you’re never go really going to learn anything new

mm

if you’re like that … like … you’ve already decided on everything and

and you can’t be right about everything ‘cos

mm

you don’t know the facts of  you know  you may have thought something for the last ten years … but never been
exposed to one little fact … someone might come along  if you’re not willing to  let that in but that one little fact may
change the whole … your whole opinion on it  but if you’re close-minded and said  saying no I’ve thought it for ten years
and you’re not gonna sway me

mm

… that  that is negative … do you see a difference between opinionated and dogmatic … mm … mm



they pr it’s certainly similar

yeah I reckon … I just think it depends on how strongly someone  is opinionated … as to its links with being
dogmatic

mm … ‘cos some people are a little bit opinionated and some people are  very opinionated

mm  so do you see dogmatic as something at the end of a scale or something … mm

or does that mean something else … mm … I don’t know

yeah I can’t think of any differences … but there probably are some … just not off the top of my head I’m 

yeah … do you know the expression “to sit on the fence”

yeah

can you  ‘cos it’s a  it’s quite an Aussie expression … so how would you explain that …

non-confrontational … yeah  when an argument comes up … and someone sits on the fence it’s  it means that they’ve … they’re not even
jumping in  they’re not expressing what they think … they won’t take sides … and does it have a positive connotation or negative

I’d say it depends on the situation

mm

can you give an example

well … there are no real right or wrong … way places to  to sit on the fence but … possibly an example … is um … where it’s a lose-lose situation  … you’re gonna get someone in trouble or … it’s gonna cause trouble no matter whose  side
you take s take sides … or … um … say if two people are arguing and you’re  friends or good friends or
relo related to or something with both of them and then … whoever’s side you take you annoy the other  party so that’s a
situation where it would be good to sit on the fence

mm … and I think also like what I was saying before where … if you don’t really know  i particularly if you’re
having an argument about … dogs and you know nothing about dogs then I think it’s good to sit on the fence because … what are 
what  do you have to contribute in a way

yeah well I I would say that it’s easier to sit on the fence when you can use the excuse I don’t really know much
about 

yeah

the argument

mm … instead of I don’t wanna  share my opinion 

mm

‘cos then people will say oh … you can’t sit on the fence … be honest

I also then think it  you know back  what you were just saying with honesty then that it’s always a good thing

mm 

 people … I think it … sometimes might show that people aren’t confident in what they believe themselves

mm

and they’re … worried to … ruffle the feathers and yet … someone else’s obviously doing it so … if you have …
something that you want to say I think you should … maybe come out and say it … ‘cos y what you’ve got to
contribute might be just as important as anyone else’s … yeah … do you think as a a nation we avoid confrontation … um … sometimes … like um … Gough Whitlam did a bit … not  not most of the time but … um … when Indonesia
attacked East Timor he did even though  were pretty good  he did avoid that confrontation because he thought
there was just gonna be a war

mm

er … probably at the time he couldn’t afford to have that stuck to his name because there were so many people attacking
him for other things … er … but as a nation … mm …

I suppose I just meant on like on a personal level

yeah

do you think that’s

well

what we do … I think we do but then that … contradicts what I said before that we’re honest … maybe we are  we are but not as
honest as I thought



because I think we are fairly non-confrontational … and we  most people  well a lot of people want everyone to
be their mate … and they  they don’t want to … lose friendships or … so … um yeah I take that back

 … 

Kylie:             we’re not an honest nation at all we just wanna please each other 

yeah … but then it’s interesting what you were saying about your tute where … it’s just one big argument … yeah … but I don’t get that at any other part of my life

right

like some of my friends if they walked in my into my tute would be … oh it’s too much … I mean we’re just
yelling at each other for the whole time basically 

 how many people are in that

our main one is … there’s forty of us ‘cos there’s forty people staying in my …  course … so we all just like start
yelling but I’m quite comfortable with that now

Kerry : yeah

but when I first started I was … oh this is too much

yeah … do you think it’s the nature of  nature of the course itself

yep

like t s the word relation’s in there and then  but you’re all at each others’ throats is that it 

 … it’s also something that … um you can get very passionate about

mm

‘cos it’s the way it’s the way our lives are lived and it’s the way … other people are living their lives so it’s … um …
it is a ve::ry emotional course to do I think

can you just explain  a bit more about what it is exactly

er um it’s just  it’s world politics is the major thing it’s looking at world economies it’s looking at inequalities
in the world why is  why have we got people who are wealthy people who are poor … um … why can’t we contribute more of that
around … um … it looks at securities so  you know that’s always … a pretty lively debate when we’re looking at
like what US spend on their defence and … things like that people just get … really emotional about it ‘cos it’s their whole …
some of them it’s their whole life and they’re not here studying it … they’re in r at  in the town doing rallies or you know
it’s

yeah

they’re very passionate about it so … they get wound up … right … um that sort of connects in with the  the next question a little bit … um … do you think Australia is
really a multicultural country 

yeah

 ourselves but what is that

yes

yeah

yes

that’s a very definite yes 

um do you want us to explain

yes 

alright um well … it’s pretty simple  it’s just lots of different ethnic groups came from different
countries after World war Two … er … so I guess you could say  that’s multicultural … um … are you just thinking of the true definition of the word

yeah why what  what did you mean

I s’pose I just … I s’po does it work then Does it work being a multicultural society … is it

um

… harmonious … being a multicultural

well

so

no

I wouldn’t use the word harmonious … like it goes alright

it works to a degree … um I think we … in some areas … I think we’re really bad … in other areas …we’re probably ahead of
a lot of other developed countries in our … sometimes we seem to accept our multiculturalism and other times we … wanna retain our … white Australian British thing …I’m doing  an essay on this  and I was up until like one o’clock
this  morning doing this  exact topic

yeah well

but

I’d say that it has to do with the  the threat from outside being greater

… yeah

‘cos … when there’s a threat from outside … being together as a group … so  when there’s … just um …
trying to think of an example … er … like if someone … attacked Australia from another country then … it wouldn’t be so much of a … big deal I mean …
people who are already citizens here … to  sort of join in with the defence force really mm 

 but  when there’s not that  when it’s just people living here … people get really petty about really small
things … like er … then when … someone … speaks a foreign language in a restaurant or something sometimes people get
annoyed and that’s like … really picky but that might not be  it’s like let it happen … when  the threat from outside is
greater

mm

so that’s why you’re more accepting of people once they’re in the group … when there’s more people outside

mm

does anyone know what I’m talking about

yeah yeah

yeah yeah

I just don’t understand … personally … the … these people who get on the … we are Australian and …
be thankful you’re here … ‘cos … none of us are from here  that’s just from

mm

 this is my point of view … and that’s why … I think we’re  we are … everyone … every white pers every  non-
Aboriginal person in Australia … i we are all a part of the multi-cultural thing here

mm

I don’t feel any more Australian tha::n … some of the people in my class … who … were born here but their parents were
born in … Serbia or Greece or whatever  they’ve been born here as well and … grown up here and so … that I think
they … can feel just as much Australian as I am … you know that’s what I don’t understand about Australia’s … you
know um … getting on the … white Anglo … thing

mm … yeah … um just going back to what you were saying there Mark about … when there’s a threat from outside …
don’t you think what happened after September 11th though was a sort of  a threat because when  when George Bush said okay
we’re all at war and we were sort of almost included in that we were very involved in that for a while … um … I mean what did
we do to our Muslim people in Australia

mm

so that sort of  doesn’t that show … that we just saw them as a threat people who we’d never considered a threat
before we suddenly turned against a lot of … people just ‘cos they looked … like 

yeah

 that religion so that wasn’t re like we didn’t gel together in that way that you were saying it

well this kind of  threat was always going to be different … because it was more like the enemy within

mm … right

… it was more of a … yeah … you can’t have … people like in a country taking … er … citizens … who are
probably … all part of one religious group … carrying out terrorism and sort of so  so it’s hard to pick … who the
real enemy is

mm

so that’s when  the blame’s gonna just bounce all over the place until it hits someone 

mm

‘cos they have to blame someone

but I think in times like that … um … that  the multicultural  of societies are all living
together …  way  and stick to their own society … like there was two girls … I used to live in Brunswick and there was two
s… like sixteen year old girls on a tram … with their scarves on … and th the day after that happened and the tram driver said
“I will not continue until you get off” … you know … that  is  pure ignorance because I  don’t believe for a second that
they were any part in that terrorism attack  but that was his way of s just putting … all Muslims in the same … bunch
… and … yeah we  I think we were really pulled away for a while … mm

mm

whereas when the Sydney Olympics were on … we were all

mm

… yeah well … we were all very proud of our Aboriginal heritage and we were all very proud of our multiculturalism
and that we all get along well and …

mm … yeah … it’s that sort of thing that makes 

yeah well I guess there was no threat with the Sydney Olympics

 yeah

yeah … but … so … when you say y you think we’re better than some of the other developed countries … um … can you
explain that a bit more

… um

I s’pose  you were thinking of Britain and America

yeah maybe



that was just a bit of a sweeping statement without anything behind it … um … I think there’s a lot of
intolerance

in Australia 

 in Australia  but I also think there is a lot of tolerance … at the same time there’s … I dunno it
if it’s half-half I don’t think it is but  I also think that … um … it’s  it’s nice to know that there are some other
cultures that can come here and do well and be really happy here and that’s … that’s  what I like to hear  that that  that
is possible that people can come here and be truly happy and … they can do well financially and they can buy their home
and they can move up the social ladder if they want to and  they can educate their children so that  it’s nice to know that
it can be done … in some places

uhuh

maybe not … in others

mm … do you think it’s different … in the country

uhuh

mm

to Melbourne or any of the other cities

yeah … it is … er … when you’re in the country  it’s it’s  small townish where everyone already knows everyone else

mm

so you’re not  generalising on people who you’ve never met before you already know the person … s so you know
who everyone is … um maybe that … is multiculturalism

so you’re

because

a bit more tolerant 

you don’t … you’re saying you don’t have a negative attitude

no I’m saying with people in the country

yeah that’s

that’s

um that’s what I meant

yeah … yeah

they don’t have a negative attitude

no well I just  think that um … once you get to know the the people which is what happens in small towns you ge sort
of know everyone … you wouldn’t really be judging based on where they came from  if you didn’t like ‘em it would just be
because … if you get to know them and they  you just didn’t get along not because … you were looking at them and they look
like they’re from … another part of the world that you don’t  know very much about

okay 

 but when you’re in the city you just  you see people who you’ve never met before all the time in 
interactions … sometimes you  erm  your subconscious part of your brain makes a judgement for you

mm

s … see how  what do you think about the country

um  I grew up in the country … and my experience  to that was probably very  different  it’s  it’s  I’ve
never thought of it until you said then but it is quite true … if  like there was two um Filipino boys that started at my
school … and that was a big thing ‘cos  we’d never had Asians at our school … a:nd … we liked them … we all liked them  and
that was maybe a personal thing we may have … our  views of  people from the Philippines may have been quite positive ‘cos
that was our only … insight into it … but in general I have to say that  um … this is … my country town I don’t
know …

um where is 

in Drouin Gippsland

ah 

 are … er so intolerant to anything that’s not white heterosexual … Anglo … you know like  my  parents
have just moved  house  embarrassingly they’ve moved next door  they’ve built a house next door and this um 
couple from … the former Yugoslavia um  have moved in from Sydney … um … Dad s:ays they don’t do a lot to help their own
situation because  he was sort of saying … that I mean they’re friendly but he said when other people wave out or whatever
they sometimes just don’t wave back or … but um I think that they would know no-one in that town  because she goes into the
supermarket with her scarf on and … she’d probably be the only person  well she would be  the only person in Drouin who’d do
that  and people would laugh at her

mm

I know she I know they’re not accepted  in that town … and I think that’s really tragic ‘cos … no-one’s even given
them a go and … they’re just normal retired people that have come down to  live in a nice peaceful surrounding and

Kerry : mm

… um … yeah I d I dunno I just found it  really intolerant of anything that … didn’t  fit their … normal category

but like you said at school that was a positive experience for you I wonder

yeah

if kids are just  you know kids are naturally more tolerant of people looking different they don’t quite  they don’t
have that judgement there do they it’s okay they look different and

yeah

they’re kind of interested by it

yeah

but it’s not  the

y

re’s not a prejudice there because they look different I don’t think

if it if there is I think it’s coming from home

yeah yeah  well that’s true yeah I suppose so ‘cos

mm

naturally I think they’re just  it wouldn’t worry them until 

no

their parents … and 

and because these two boys were like really cool  according to us you know they were  they always
wore really good clothes and  they could dance really well we were going through the stage of Saturday night discos and  you
know they were really great dancers and everyone really admired them

mm

and I know that … sort of whatever they’d wear  the next week people would come to school with the same clothes
on or whatever and  yeah it was probably a positive experience for … most of the students 

 but it could easily have been the other way couldn’t it

yeah

‘cos if that  like you

yeah

said that was your only exposure to Filipinos

yeah

and it was a good one so you’ve

yeah

always had a positive attitude but it could’ve quite easily have…

something I’ve noticed is the scarves that some Muslims wear

mm

even though they’re to do with the religion it’s kind of anti-social like fitting in to our general society

mm

it’s  people  when you’re  friendly to someone you  you look into their face and their hair and  and
covering it up is just … doesn’t really show us that you’re sort of  I reckon when you when you’re judging someone you
always look at their face and

mm

it’s er it’s just important like … you just wouldn’t trust someone with a mask on as much as you would 

yeah

without a mask and so um … so it



doesn’t really help

no I guess there’s a fine line there between keeping your own  traditions

yeah

and  assimilating into a new society

mm

by … if they take it off they’re breaking with their traditions … if
yeah

they leave it on … people’ll be saying they’re not getting into their new society so …

so um  probably the idea is that they’d have to  sort of reach out in other ways … sort of talk to people a bit more

yeah

sort of  just interact a bit … like people know that it’s er … nothing bad they’re not trying to hide it’s just a
religious belief

I had um … there was a girl in one of my classes last year … and I’ve never seen anything other than her eyes and  I
always feel really bad ‘cos I’m sure I must walk past her and not say hello ‘cos I don’t know what …

yeah

I can’t tell whether it’s her or not … and that must happen …

if they have the ones wh where it’s just the eyes for all you know that could be a guy

yeah y yeah I got  like I just  walking past her in the school yard and I can’t tell if 

mm

it’s her or not so 

yeah

they must get that a lot with people that … whereas I’d walk past and go “oh hi Mark”

mm

I can’t  and  and she must s:ee all these people walking past her that she knows and not

but she must understand that

oh absolutely and she’s …

 each other they must

yeah

unless they know each other very well and see each other

yeah

a lot

be normal to them  yeah

yeah so I suppose they wouldn’t take it the wrong way

mm

but I know what you mean about sort of like the … it it comes across as a mask which in our society would be quite
defensive … ‘cos another thing like that is eye contact … um we look at people when we talk to them and a lot  nations
don’t … now if I’m talking to you and I’m sort of looking over here and there it really looks  I come across as quite shifty
 and suspicious in our culture  but a lot of other cultures  it’s actually rude to look at people directly because it’s a
challenge so a lot of Indian cultures for

mm

example 

 keep the head down

will look away it’s actually a sign of respect … but when we see that we just have a totally different … view of someone
who doesn’t look you in the eye so you often sort of go … “God all Indians are are really shifty” or something and it
just comes from this … purely cultural thing where  they’re actually trying to be polite and do the right thing and we sort of
take it the wrong way

mm

… so it’s … I guess  and it  the thing with the scarves is okay because people understand that that is
tradition and it’s religion … but the eye contact thing unless someone tells you that you’re gonna just get the wrong opinion
about people and it’s I think there’s so many misunderstandings across cultures

yeah

because of stuff like that that we just  what’s polite in one culture just isn’t … in another

mm

 yeah … and people don’t always question whether it’s just a difference in culture if it’s not the same as their own then they
just  you know they wouldn’t go “oh I wonder if eye contact in India is a different thing”

absolutely

they’d just go “oh they’re looking elsewhere so they’re shifty

yeah

‘cos in my culture you don’t do that” so they might

that’s right

not question that  their way of doing it might be just different and … that mean doesn’t mean the same as in

that’s right

your own

yeah … we I’ve  that’s what I’ve really enjoyed about travelling … is that … your  you become … a minority and so you
don’t take for granted any of your own things because …

yeah

um … their way of doing it for now is gonna be the way of doing it because

yeah yeah

you’re you’re in  with them

yeah yeah

so you do start to question … the differences rather than just assume that your way … was the only way

that’s right and this  that whole country you’re in are doing it all wrong

mm

yeah so you go to India and nobody looks at you and you still think they’re all shifty

mm

and it’s like  at some stage it’s gonna have to click that  okay this  is the way they do it but it means

maybe this means something else

something else yeah

yeah

yeah

yeah … what do you think um … and going back to our culture  what do you think a good person is … if I asked you to write down
a list of ten qualities … what

um

would they be

honesty … er … that’d be number one I think

yeah

yeah … um … someone that would make you  make you happy

uhuh

someone that can  who you can have a laugh with … someone that’s um … you can trust

yeah … that sort of goes with the honesty

yeah and someone being 

being trustworthy generally …  um … someone who can … laugh at themselves

mm

mm

… ‘cos people aren’t very fun to be around if they  they can’t make fun of themselves

mm

can’t see the lighter side of their own … mis mis guided  along the  er …

someone who cares about you … and is interested in you

yeah  so s:omeone who’s not self-centred

yeah … someone who sees the good in everyone  well not everyone but sees the good in people

mm

yeah so … they’re not shallow then

yeah

um … I can’t really think of anything else

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