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Mark & Kylie (Raw)
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Mark & Kylie (Raw)
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Speaker:participant,Kylie,25 participant,Mark,19Description :Participants were informed that the researcher was looking at the general differences between French and Australian English speakers’ conversational styles, and were not given any further specific information. The researcher's own participation in the conversation was limited to asking questions on certain topics to initiate the conversation between the two speakers, and to adding comments from time to time. The participants were asked to talk to each other rather than to the researcher, although she was often included in the conversation. An attempt was made to ensure that the conversations were as similar as possible in terms of set-up, length and topics discussed, (although not all of the topics were covered in every conversation). To this end the researcher had prepared a list of topics on which to ask the participants for their opinion; these included such issues as life in Australia, the difference between French and Australian English speakers, multiculturalism, the role of honesty in a relationship, the importance of expressing one’s opinion, and the difference between tu and vous (the familiar and polite forms of you in French) for the French speakers.ns1:ParticipantRelationstrangersParticipants :Mark (male, 19, Australian, student, no time spent in France), Kylie (female, 25, Australian, student, no time spent in France)Audience :Small GroupCommunication Context :Face to FaceRelated Document :Mark & Kylie (Text), Text Mark & Kylie (Original), Original http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/source/LaTrobeMark#Audio Mark & Kylie (Raw), RawInteractivity :DialogueWord Count :9285Mode :SpokenPlaint Text :http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/items/LaTrobeMark#Textns1:SettingUnfamiliar to both (a room at university)ns1:lengthOfRecording44 minutes 26 secondsns1:numberOfPeople3CreatorKerry MullanIdentifierMark & KylieTitleMark & KylieDiscourse Type :Interactive DiscourseRecording Date :17.06.2001
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Extent:9285IdentifierTranscrp - Mark & Kylie-raw.txtTitleLaTrobeMark#RawTypeRaw
Transcrp - Mark & Kylie-raw.txt
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Kerry: The first thing I was just gonna ask you is what do you think a typical Aussie is.. if someone .. if someone asked you to explain a typical Australian how would you do that? Mark: mm interesting … typical Australian … (1.5) Kylie: I think it’s just really hard to … generalise like that I don’t … you know there’s .. there’s people in Australia that um … are very well educated are very well travelled erm very well spoken … don’t even like sort of speak with a well spoken British accent and then there’s Australians … who live in the outback … who speak almost their own language Kerry: [mm] Kylie: [erm] you know I just think it’s such a big place and there’s so many different people here that … (1.0) it’s hard to say what a typical Australian is? because what .. what one typical Australian may be .. someone else might be nothing like that? so … Mark: Yeah. I think I agree with you Kylie Kylie: @@ Mark: Erm. Just trying to think of … well ob.. obviously there’s no one typical Australian, but perhaps there’s stereotypes. Do you want us to tell you about some of those [??????] Kerry: [Absolutely] Mark Yeah? = Kerry: = Yeah Mark: Alright, there’s .. there’s the Paul Hogan stereotype Kylie: mm Mark: That one’s … (1.0) well known [in Am]erica Kylie [mm] Mark: and the UK Kylie: mm Mark: Sorry I shouldn’t tap the table Kerry: That’s alright. [@@] Mark: [um] Kylie [That’s] the way we um … market ourselves overseas as well we .. as the erm ocker bogans that like the eh what’s his name? Steve Irwin you know the Crocodile Hunter = Mark: = Yep Kylie: He’s one of the most popular.. he’s probably passed Paul Hogan in popularity stakes overseas everyone knows him … and there would be so many people who would think that he’s a typical Australian man if they’ve not been here Mark: Yeah … although I think most intelligent Americans (???) probably know that not all Australians are like him Kylie: You don’t know [laughs] Mark: [no] erm Kerry: You might be surprised [actually] Mark: [yeah] but um there are other stereotypes coming out like erm there a few Australians making it sort of big in later movies just recently like Russel Crowe Kylie: mm Mark: Ah Hugh Jackman. Who else There’s a few more Kylie: Nicole Kidman? Mark: Yeah = Kylie: = [Mm] Mark: [well] exactly Kylie: Mm Mark: Yeah … and erm … so they’re probably dispelling the old myth of .. of feral Aussies [sort of] Kylie: [Mm] Mark: being ??? Kylie: yeah Mark: yeah Kylie: I’d like to think they were Mark: Yeah Kylie: ‘Cos it’s not an image that … it‘s embarrassing … if you’re overseas and they’re like you know Mark: Mm Kylie: Is your dad’s name Bruce and your Mum’s name Sheila right Kerry/Mark: [@@@] Kylie: [????] yeah maybe a few of them but it’s not the way I want my country to be portrayed … [but] Kerry: [Have] you travelled overseas? Kylie: Ye[ah] Kerry: [uh]uh and do you find that’s what happens? Is that what [??? ] Kylie [Erm] Kerry: Do you think that’s what peoples’ perception [of Australians] Kylie: [A lot of] Kerry: [are?] Kylie: [Yeah] I was surprised that I thought that a lot of people thought that that’s … (1.0) but they were people who’d not been here Kerry Mm Where were you? Kylie: Mostly in London. Kerry: Right. Kylie: But travelling around Europe and Asia and Africa. Kerry: Yeah. Kylie: Erm … (1.0) In Africa they just wanna know what your relation you are to America so that’s why they’re not really that interested in here I don’t think Kerry: Yeah. It must seem a very long way away [to them] Kylie: [Mm] [Mm] Kerry: [Have] you travelled overseas [????] Mark: [No I’ve never] I’ve never been overseas. Kerry: Yeah Mark: I’ve always lived in Australia never left. Kerry: Yeah Mark: Ah w.. I got a passport last year Kerry: ye[ah] Mark: [just] so that I .. so that I have it when I wanna leave .. because ah last year I turned 18? Kerry: Mm Mark: and so once you turn 18 you can get your passport for 10 years instead of f.. 5 Kerry: Oh okay is that how it [works] Mark: [S:o] I figured I’d get it now and then I’ll like be able to .. you know to keep it till I’m 28? Kerry: Yeah yeah ??? excellent ??? Mark: Yeah Kerry: Yeah Well just going back to stereotypes then what do you think .. what’s your um idea of a stereotypical French person or do you have one Mark: Oh … a stereotypical French person. Yeah with a .. a beret and like a … there there used to be an ad on TV for for French onion potato chips and they had Kerry: [laughs] Mark: guys with French sticks on their back Kerry: [uhuh] Mark: [And erm] like a beret and like a white striped white and blue striped t shirt? Kerry: Uhuh [Yeah] Mark: [and um] with stripes across it … and er speaking with a really really thick way out accent ... Yeah. That’s that’s a pretty typical stereotype. What do what do you think Kylie? Kylie: Erm mine’s not a very good one unfortunately and it’s bad because I’ve met a lot of nice French people as well Mark: Oh well we know [that] Kylie: [but] Mark: French people aren’t really like that Kylie: Well I met a lot more … um … rude French and they’re .. that’s what’s stayed in mind particularly in Paris that um .. the service and you know try as I did to speak the language it didn’t get me very far and so … I think with my first thought of a French person is um a touch of arrogance? and … (1.0) also that was drilled into me every day in England that that ‘cos they you know they all just say “oh they’re so arrogant” so I think with um everyone saying that you start to believe it um … but yeah there was also that nice .. I always have this lovely picture of a woman riding through her small town and she’s got one of those old bikes and the f.. couple of French sticks sticking out of her back um Kerry: [Mm] Kylie: [ba]sket or the front basket and … yeah there’s that nice side to it as well Kerry: Yeah. In what way were they rude can you Kylie: Erm [they] Kerry: [Do] you remember some specific examples or what [you] Kylie: [they] Kerry: thought was rude at the time Kylie: Erm … (2.0) h.. u.. we went to a restaurant one night there was six of us and … clearly we couldn’t speak Engli.. er Fr.. sorry couldn’t speak French and you know as much as we would say hallo and thank you and but we couldn’t order in French and the menu was all in French and we stood there for like ten minutes and the waiter was getting really angry with us and he wasn’t helping us out at all ... and in the end we just thought it was easier to say six steaks and six chips ‘cos someone knew how to say that and then he just said back in perfect English “Okay six steaks six chips and beer” … and and it was just like you’ve spent ten minutes getting annoyed with us Kerry: Mm Kylie: we’re like .. and you spoke English why didn’t you just help us out? Kerry: [Yeah] Kylie: [It was] it was always when we were eating out Kerry: Mm Kylie: But .. they were rude Kerry: ??? Mark: I’ve got a similar story to that … um I did French in high school and the teacher told us that’s what happens they .. they pretend they can’t speak any English Kylie: Mm Mark: And they try make you @ speak French for them and they .. when they’re perfectly fluent anyway Kylie: Yeah Mark: ‘cos they don’t like doing that. [Breath] A:h. well I guess in Australia … (1.0) we don’t know how to .. like most .. people only speak s.. English Kylie: Mm Mark: the majority of us … so we don’t learn other languages for the tourists … so I wouldn’t expect it from the French … but when they know it … already then it’s kind of nice to sort of .. to say hello in … the native language Kylie: Mm Mark: and … it’s it’s amazing how the French … they still get heaps of tourists Kylie: It’s the [most visited country] Mark: [??? ??? ??? ??? ???] Kylie: in the world I think isn’t it? [France]? Kerry: [Is it?] Kylie: Yeah. Mark: Possi[bly it’s certainly] Kylie: [Paris is definitely] the most visited city Mark: up there yeah Kerry: Mm Mark: And now they’re … they’re they’re rude to the tourists Kylie: Yeah [@@] Mark: [It doesn’t] make any sense Kylie: Yeah I mean and er .. I never get the pronunciation right but is it Champs Elysées? Kerry: Uh huh Kylie: And that street .. you are treated like dirt .. and that is the main street. And what .. I don’t why we.. the first time the service was embarrassing I felt so low … and we went back a second time @ and it was just as bad .. it was like they were grunting at us and … yeah when they .. when a street like that relies solely on tourism but I guess they’re not relying on repeat business @ Kerry: Yeah = Kylie = Because you’re just going Mark: mm [I’m] Kylie: [may]be once in your life = Mark: = I’m told if you go over that side of the river .. you get a lot of … good bargains Kylie: Mm. It’s always ??? that thing though you always want to go to the place that’s Mark: yeah Kylie: a famous place and say that you’ve [had ] Mark: [Yeah] Kylie: a coffee there and Mark: and say you’ve been Kylie: [Been treated badly] @ Mark: [??? ??? ???] someone that knows it Kerry: @@ Kylie: @@ Yeah yeah = Kerry: = Yeah .. apparently there’s a restaurant in London in Chinatown and they’re famous for that and people go there … on purpose to be treated badly apparently they’re treated like absolute shit this .. the waiters and everything and that’s part of the attraction of this place that people go there just to see how bad it really is and Kylie: [mm] Kerry: [it sounds] horrific I’ve never been there Kylie: [Mm] Kerry: [As yet.] Kylie: Mm Kerry: So I think it’s that kind of thing as well = Mark: = But the Chinese being rude it’s just not as fun is it as the French being rude Kerry: @@ Kylie: Yeah @ true Mark: The way they do it it’s just a whole lot snootier? Kerry: Yeah Different? Mark: Yeah Kerry: Yeah yeah Mark: In Chinese it’s just not right .. just ... you can’t explain it .. just doesn’t have the same effect Kylie: [No] Kerry: [They’re] not elegant with it Mark: No Kerry: @@ Mark: [?????] Kylie: [That’s] the thing that .. it .. it’s been joked about before the French can yell at you and it still sounds good? Kerry: [yeah] Kylie: [like] they can get away with it probably ‘cos it still sounds … attractive Kerry: yeah yeah yeah … So what did you miss most about Australia when you were away? Kylie: um … (3.0) Kerry: How long were [you] Kylie: [the] Kerry: gone for? Kylie: Erm .. two and half years? … The honesty I think. Kerry: Oh Okay. Kylie: The honesty of people … But mo.. most will most people you can tell they either like you or they don’t like you … either by the way they act or that they’ll tell you that Kerry: Mm Kylie: Erm … Whereas in … (2.5) well I’m just going .. I’m comparing this to England ‘cos that’s where I mostly lived … um everyone pretends to be your best friend. … It’s a lot of falseness there I think Kerry: Okay Kylie: whereas I’ve … one thing I’ve learnt from that is I think Australians generally are quite genuine? Kerry: Right. H.. how did it sort of .. manifest itself .. I mean what .. what made you feel that people were being false? Kylie: … Um just a bit over the top … you know you might meet someone once and then the next time they’d be so excited to see you [and] Kerry: [Mm] Kylie: you sort of think well I’m not that fascinating @@ surely you’re not that happy to see me you know like Idunno I mean it wasn’t a big issue but it was just Kerry: yeah Kylie: Yeah but it was … and erm … maybe it was the work I … maybe it was the place I worked in ‘cos I worked there for 18 months and Kerry: Mm Kylie: Maybe um … I hadn’t been exposed to so much backstabbing in the workplace and maybe that’s just where I … Kerry: Mm Kylie: got it from Kerry: Yeah yeah yeah It’s interesting ‘cos that was one of my other questions for much later is how important do you think honesty is … erm … and I don’t mean sort of couples being faithful to each other but sort of in a friendship erm … where do you think honesty cuts off and politeness comes in so if you .. you know if your friend comes in … wearing something horrific .. are you actually going to say that looks Kylie: [Mm] Kerry: [dread]ful or are you just going to be polite about it sort of … how do you .. how do you see that balance what’s more important for you? Would you always just be really honest and say Kylie: No Kerry: [So] if you thought … Kylie: No .. because also it’s not my place to tell someone that … a.. apart from maybe one or two friends ... if you’re out shopping and you’d say ooh I don’t like that but .. who am I to s… tell a friend or someone that that looks silly ‘cos they might like it. Kerry: [uhuh] Kylie: [So] I don’t that’s any of my business Kerry: Okay .. so where do you see the cut off then between … sort of … when you stop being honest and when you should start being polite? Mark: I think it depends how … how well … how close you are to the friend Kerry: Mm Mark: ‘Cos if it was a close friend of mine I wouldn’t say anything … if I thought they looked terrible Kerry: [Mm] Mark: [What] they were wearing unless they asked … And If they asked “What.. what do you think” then I co.. then I’d just be honest Kerry: [Right] Mark: [I’d] say no you’d look much better in something else Kerry: Okay so you don’t … you’d find a nice way to tell them as well = Mark: = Yeah = Kerry: = You wouldn’t just come out and say “oh that looks horrible” Mark: mm yeah most of the time that’s what I’d do Kerry: right Mark: but i.. it’s .. I think that’s the idea if you … if you’re … if you’re a friend then you owe them your honesty … Kerry: mm Kylie: mm Mark: ‘cos if you lie to them .. then .. it’s just not right … friendship’s important Kerry: mm Kylie: I always that I can never ever work in a.. one of those fashion shops ‘cos I just can’t .. I’m not a very good liar and if someone said “Oh does this look good” and you know all them say “oh that looks fan[tas]tic” Kerry: [Yeah] Kylie: whatever you try on. I couldn’t … Kerry: yeah Kylie: lie and say “yeah it does look good” when … if.. if they’re asking for my opinion Kerry: Yeah unless it’s commission-based and then … Kylie: Yeah well that @ [might be why they so readily @@] Kerry: [@@ …… @@] Mark: I could probably do it but I wouldn’t like it Kylie: No Mark: It .. it would just be … It would just be horrible Kylie: Mm Kerry: What about something like if someone lent you … say a good friend lent you a really good book or their favourite book … and you read it and you just thought “I don’t really like this” .. and they .. when you give it back they ask what you think of it. Would you tell them you didn’t like it? or would you … Mark: I would Kerry: You would Kylie: Yeah I would … because that’s not personal at all … that’s not judging their character or their personality … (1.0) that’s just … Kerry: but if it’s their favourite book and they really like it isn’t that … you [don’t] Kylie: [mm] Kerry: see that as [criticising] Kylie: [n.. … no] Kerry: what they’re reading Kylie: no ‘cos I think that’s really dishonest to say yeah it was a great book just because … Kerry: [mm] Kylie: [they] liked it Mark: well I’d think if they’re asking f.. for your opinion … why would they want you to lie? Kerry/Kylie: mm Mark: if they say well why did you say that we.. well you asked Kerry: [@] Kylie: [yeah] if they don’t want anyone to be critical of it they shouldn’t ask [in case] Mark: [yeah] Kylie: someone is Mark: they wanted an honest opinion … (1.0) they got it [@] Kylie: [yeah] Mark: … [but] Kylie: … [I know] um .. my parents go to the movies a lot and @ my mum just loves everything she goes to and sometimes Dad will be honest and say I didn’t like it and it’s like h:e’s said to her I don’t like you … she takes it so personally .. that he might not like a movie Kerry: yeah Kylie: … and I don’t .. I just don’t … see why .. you know she’s had no input into that sort of product so Kerry: [yeah] Kylie: [it’s] no judgement on her Kerry: but because she likes it maybe she takes that as being sort of [as being] Kylie: [yeah] Kerry: critical of her likes? = Kylie = yeah Kerry: yeah Kylie: maybe Kerry: yeah … but then if she likes everything … it’s [????????????????????????????????] Kylie: [@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@] yeah I think so Kerry: yeah … it’s interesting though what you said about the .. the English because the French think the Australians are very hypocritical … (1.0) um … simply because we do this polite stuff so we wouldn’t tell someone that we thought they looked bad Kylie: mm Kerry: um .. whereas they would … they’d just come straight out with it and they’re very direct and s.. sort of honesty comes before everything else .. which is why we often think they’re being rude Kylie: mm Kerry: because they would … they’d be honest in places where we would probably choose to be polite [??] Kylie: [but] Kerry: as well so.. Kylie: I think .. ‘cos um .. I forgot a perfect example was I worked for an accounting firm for 18 months in London and one of the partners there was French and I worked on and off for him .. he was French Mauritian Kerry: mm Kylie: um .. and … in eighteen months he had six French secretaries? that all quit in tears [um] Kerry: [@] Kylie: he almost had me in tears a few times … and I just thought he … (2.0) his Frenchness made him a really bad person Kerry: [mm] Kylie: [I] think though he was a .. he was so rude and abrupt he never was … um subtle or … (1.0) he’d just say whatever he felt and it .. and it was … (1.0) he upset everyone by being like that Kerry: [yeah] Kylie: [er] even the F.. even the six French secretaries who … must be used to .. that Kerry: yeah = Kylie: = way maybe? Kerry: yeah Kylie: but he would u.. he upset [all of them and HE WAS] Kerry: [that’s interesting] Kylie: worse to them … Kerry: yeah Kylie: than me .. I think maybe ‘cos he thought they had that French connection and [he could] Kerry: [yeah] Kylie: .. he could be more [blunt] Kerry: [yeah] Kylie: with them Kerry: yeah … ‘cos the French sort of um … (1.5) their sense of hierarchy is much .. they still have that sense of hierarchy [whereas] Kylie: [mm] Kerry: most .. I suppose Brits do a little bit but Australia’s really tried not to? Kylie: mm Kerry: um so the French people who are bosses will come in and just order people around because they can do that … and of course Australians take … they don’t take kindly to that [at all] Kylie: [no] Kerry: but then it’s interesting that obviously the French secretaires didn’t either so he must have been a really … extreme case Kylie: mm Kerry: yeah ... um … so thinking of opinions then do you think it’s always important to give an opinion Mark: … (1.5) no sometimes you’ve.. you’ve got to know when to shut up ... Kerry: mm Mark: but when you’re asked for an opinion then you know Kerry: when would you shut up? Mark: er well it depends who’s asking the opinion Kerry: @ [uhuh] Mark: [‘cos] if it’s someone you’re not gonna know … you can just not say anything … (1.0) you know … depends if it’s just you and them or if it’s … (1.0) does anyone have an opinion on this ???? … (1.5) yeah I mean if you think you might anger someone and you don’t .. you don’t care about whether you impress them or if you’re honest and they think you’re a horrible person or … (2.0) Kylie: um … well doing the course that I’m doing it .. you can’t not be opinionated .. like … um .. where our tutes are one hundred percent arguments .. [that’s] Mark: [right] Kylie: all we do .. I think the most important thing I’ve learnt is .. if you’re gonna have an opinion on something know what you’re talking about .. and .. when you were saying people should know when to shut up I think it’s .. that’s true when people get really loud about something like .. I think that .. you know that looking foolish ‘cos I’ve done it myself .. if you get really opinionated about something .. and you actually d.. have nothing [to back it up] Kerry: [@@@] Kylie: like you don’t really know what you’re arguing about? I mean like that .. that’s when I’ve taught myself .. to shut up … unless I know .. or think I know what I’m talking about? Kerry: … (2.5) what.. what do you think opinionated means .. you just used the word there how do you define opinionated? I’ll ask you the same thing Mark: [uni.. universal] (??) Kylie: [just um] oh you .. you’re gonna = Mark: = I was gonna say ... you ... have … an opinion on everything … don’t necessarily share it all the time but most of the time I reckon … (2.5) the idea of someone who’s opinionated which you know ... and they all .. they .. they’re set in their w.. ways … (1.0) someone who’s opinionated will already have their opinion sort of settled ahead … ready to dish ‘em out … at any opportunity Kylie: mm [I] Mark: [?] Kylie: agree with that .. that it’s just um .. an opinion that is strong? often Mark: yeah = Kylie: = everything you have an opinion on? And you’re strong on ... everyone of those? … and that you don’t .. can’t be swayed .. I don’t think it necessarily means that someone else’s opinion .. you .. you think is wrong … (1.0) but you just don’t .. you think your way’s … more right Mark: yeah … [so] Kylie: [yeah] Mark: someone’s who’s opinionated does not have an open mind … Kylie: mm Kerry: … so you see it as a negative quality .. someone being opinionated? Mark: yeah I think so Kerry: it has a negative connotation for you? Mark: w.. well it does because … (1.5) um … you’re never go.. really going to learn anything new Kerry: [mm] Mark: [if] you’re like that … (1.5) like … you’ve already decided on everything [and] Kylie: [and] you can’t be right about everything [‘cos] Mark: [mm] Kylie: you don’t know the facts of .. you know .. you may have thought something for the last ten years … but never been exposed to one little fact … someone might come along .. if you’re not willing to .. let that in but that one little fact may change the whole … your whole opinion on it .. but if you’re close-minded and said .. saying no I’ve thought it for ten years and you’re not gonna sway me Kerry: mm Kylie: … (2.0) that .. that is negative … (1.0) Kerry: do you see a difference between opinionated and dogmatic? … (7.0) Kylie: mm … (5.0) mm Kerry: @@@ Mark: they pr.. it’s certainly similar Kylie: yeah I reckon … (3.0) I just think it depends on how strongly someone .. is opinionated … as to its links with being dogmatic Kerry: mm … (4.0) Kylie: ‘cos some people are a little bit opinionated and some people are .. very opinionated Kerry: mm .. so do you see dogmatic as something at the end of a scale? or something? … (4.0) Kylie: [mm] Kerry: [or] does that mean something else? … (3.5) Kylie: mm … (1.5) I don’t know Mark: yeah I can’t think of any differences … (2.0) but there probably are some … just not off the top of my head I’m .. Kerry: yeah … (1.5) do you know the expression “to sit on the fence”? Kylie: yeah Kerry: can you .. ‘cos it’s a .. it’s quite an Aussie expression … so how would you explain that … Kylie: non-confrontational … (2.0) Mark: yeah .. when an argument comes up … (1.5) and someone sits on the fence it’s .. it means that they’ve … they’re not even jumping in .. they’re not expressing what they think … they won’t take sides … (2.0) Kerry: and does it have a positive connotation or negative? Mark: I’d say it depends on the situation Kylie: mm Kerry: can you give an example Mark: well … there are no real right or wrong … way.. places to .. to sit on the fence but … possibly an example … is um … (1.0) where it’s a lose-lose situation @ … you’re gonna get someone in trouble or … it’s gonna cause trouble no matter whose .. side you take s.. take sides … (1.0) (breath) or … (1.0) um … say if two people are arguing and you’re .. friends or good friends or relo.. related to or something with both of them? and then … whoever’s side you take you annoy the other .. party? so that’s a situation where it would be good to sit on the fence Kylie: mm … (1.5) and I think also like what I was saying before where … if you don’t really know .. i.. particularly if you’re having an argument about … dogs and you know nothing about dogs then I think it’s good to sit on the fence because … what are .. what .. do you have to contri[bute in a way] Mark: [yeah well I..] I would say that it’s easier to sit on the fence when you can use the excuse I don’t really know much about .. Kylie: yeah Mark: the argument Kylie: mm … (2.0) Mark: instead of I don’t wanna .. share my opinion @ Kylie: mm Mark: ‘cos then people will say oh … (1.0) you can’t sit on the fence … be honest Kylie: I also then (?) think it .. you know back .. what you were just saying with honesty then that it’s always a good thing? Kerry: mm = Kylie: = people … (2.0) I think it … sometimes might show that people aren’t confident in what they believe themselves? Kerry: mm Kylie: and they’re … (1.5) worried to … (1.0) ruffle the feathers and yet … someone else’s obviously doing it so … if you have … something that you want to say I think you should … (2.0) maybe come out and say it … (2.0) ‘cos y.. what you’ve got to contribute might be just as important as anyone else’s … (3.0) Kerry: yeah … do you think as a.. a nation we avoid confrontation … (3.0) Mark: um … sometimes … (1.0) like um … (3.0) Gough Whitlam did a bit … not .. not most of the time but … um … when Indonesia attacked East Timor he did even though ???????????? were pretty good ???? he did avoid that confrontation because he thought there was just gonna be a war Kerry: mm Mark: er … probably at the time he couldn’t afford to have that stuck to his name because there were so many people attacking him for other things … (1.5) er … but as a nation … (1.0) mm … Kerry: I suppose I just meant on like on a personal le[vel] Mark: [yeah] Kerry: do you think [that’s] Mark: [well] Kerry: what we do … (4.0) Kylie: I think we do but then that … (1.0) contradicts what I said before that we’re honest … maybe we are .. we are but not as honest as I thought Kerry: @@[@@] Kylie: [because] I think we are fairly non-confrontational … and we .. most people .. well a lot of people want everyone to be their mate … and they .. they don’t want to … (1.5) lose friendships or … so … um yeah I take that back Kerry: @ ….. [@@@@] Kylie.: [we’re not an honest nation] at all we just wanna please each other @@@@@ Kerry: yeah … (1.0) but then it’s interesting what you were saying about your tute where … it’s just one big argument … (3.0) Kylie: yeah … but I don’t get that at any other part of my life Kerry: right Kylie: like (?) some of my friends if they walked in my.. into my tute would be … (1.0) oh it’s too much … I mean we’re just yelling at each other for the whole time basically = Kerry: = how many people are in that? Kylie: our main one is … there’s forty of us ‘cos there’s forty people staying in my … ?? course … so we all just like start yelling but I’m quite comfortable with that now Kerry : yeah Kylie: but when I first started I was … (1.0) oh this is too much Kerry: yeah … do you think it’s the nature of .. nature of the course itself? Kylie: yep Kerry: like t.. s.. the word relation’s in there and then .. but you’re all at each others’ throats is that it? [@@] Kylie: [@@]@@ … it’s also something that … um you can get very passionate about Kerry: mm Kylie: ‘cos it’s the way it’s the way our lives are lived and it’s the way … other people are living their lives so it’s … um … (2.0) it is a ve::ry emotional course to do I think Kerry: can you just explain .. a bit more about what it is exactly? Kylie: er.. um it’s just .. it’s world politics is the major thing it’s looking at world economies it’s looking at inequalities in the world why is .. why have we got people who are wealthy people who are poor … um … why can’t we contribute more of that around … um … (2.0) it looks at securities so .. you know that’s always … (1.5) a pretty lively debate when we’re looking at like what US spend on their defence and … things like that people just get … really emotional about it ‘cos it’s their whole … some of them it’s their whole life and they’re not here studying it … they’re in r.. at .. in the town doing rallies or you know it’s Kerry: yeah Kylie: they’re very passionate about it so … (1.0) they get wound up … (3.0) Kerry: right … (1.5) um that sort of connects in with the .. the next question a little bit … um … do you think Australia is really a multicultural country? [????] Mark: [yeah] Kerry: ????????? ourselves but what is that? Mark: yes Kerry: yeah? Mark: yes Kerry: that’s a very definite yes @ Mark: um do you want us to explain? Kerry: yes [@@] Mark: [alright] um well … (1.0) it’s pretty simple .. it’s just lots of different ethnic groups came from different countries after World war Two … er … (1.0) so I guess you could say that’s multicultural … um … (2.0) Kerry: are you just thinking of the true definition of the word? Mark: yeah why.. [what .. what did you mean] Kerry: [I s’pose I just] … I s’po.. does it work then? Does it work being a multicultural society … is it Mark: um Kerry: … harmonious … being a [multicultural] Mark: [well] Kerry: [so..] Kylie: [no] Mark: I wouldn’t use the word harmonious … (1.5) like it goes alright Kylie: it works to a degree … um I think we … in some areas … I think we’re really bad … in other areas …we’re probably ahead of a lot of other developed countries in our … (3.5) sometimes we seem to accept our multiculturalism and other times we … (1.0) wanna retain our … (1.5) white Australian British ..thing …I’m doing an essay on this @ and I was up until like one o’clock this @ morning doing this @ exact topic Mark: yeah [well] Kylie: [but] Mark: I’d say that it has to do with the .. the threat from outside being greater Kylie: … (1.5) yeah Mark: ‘cos … when there’s a threat from outside … being (?) together as a group … (1.5) so .. when there’s … (2.0) just um … trying to think of an example … (2.0) er … (1.0) Kerry: ???? Mark: like if someone … attacked Australia from another country then … it wouldn’t be so much of a … (1.0) big deal I mean … people who are already citizens here … (2.0) to .. sort of join in with the defence force really (?) Kylie: mm = Mark: = but .. when there’s not that .. when it’s just people living here … people get really petty about really small things? … like er … (1.5) then when … someone … speaks a foreign language in a restaurant or something sometimes people get annoyed? and that’s like … really picky but that might not be .. it’s like let it happen … when .. the threat from outside is greater Kylie: mm Mark: so that’s why you’re more accepting of people once they’re in the group … when there’s more people outside Kylie: mm Mark: does anyone know what I’m tal[king about]? Kylie: [yeah [yeah]] Kerry: [yeah] yeah Kylie: I just don’t understand … (1.0) personally … the … (2.0) these people who get on the … (1.0) we are Australian and … (1.0) be thankful you’re here … ‘cos … none of us are from here .. that’s just [from] Kerry: [mm] Kylie: .. this is my point of view … and that’s why … I think we’re .. we are … everyone … every white pers.. every .. non- Aboriginal person in Australia … i.. we are all a part of the multi-cultural thing here Kerry: mm Kylie: I don’t feel any more Australian tha::n … some of the people in my class … who … were born here but their parents were born in … (1.0) Serbia or Greece or whatever .. they’ve been born here as well and … (2.0) grown up here and so … that I think they … can feel just as much Australian as I am … (1.0) you know that’s what I don’t understand about Australia’s … (2.5) you know um … getting on the … white Anglo … thing Kerry: mm … yeah … (2.0) um just going back to what you were saying there Mark about … when there’s a threat from outside … don’t you think what happened after September 11th though was a sort of .. a threat because when .. when George Bush said okay we’re all at war and we were sort of almost included in that? we were very involved in that for a while … um … I mean what did we do to our Muslim people in Australia Kylie: mm Kerry: so that sort of .. doesn’t that show … (1.0) that we just saw them as a threat people who we’d never considered a threat before we suddenly turned against a lot of … people just ‘cos they looked … (1.0) like ????????[?????] Mark: [yeah] Kerry: ???????????????????? that religion so that wasn’t re.. like we didn’t gel together in that way that you were saying it Mark: well this kind of .. threat was always going to be different … because it was more like the enemy within Kerry: mm … right Mark: … it was more of a … (2.0) yeah … (1.0) you can’t have … people like in a country taking … er … citizens … (1.5) who are probably … all part of one religious group … (1.0) carrying out terrorism and sort of so .. so it’s hard to pick … (1.5) who the real enemy is? Kerry: mm Mark: so that’s when .. the blame’s gonna just bounce all over the place until it hits someone @ Kerry: mm Mark: ‘cos they have to [blame someone] Kylie: [but I think] in times like that … um … that .. the multicultural ??? of societies are all living together? … ??? way .. and stick to their own society … like there was two girls … I used to live in Brunswick and there was two s… like sixteen year old girls on a tram … with their scarves on … and th.. the day after that happened and the tram driver said “I will not continue until you get off” … you know … that .. is .. pure ignorance because I .. don’t believe for a second that they were any part in that terrorism attack .. but that was his way of s.. just putting … all Muslims in the same … (1.5) bunch … and … (2.0) yeah we .. I think we were really pulled away for a while … mm Kerry: mm Kylie: whereas when the Sydney Olympics were on … we were all Kerry: mm Kylie: … yeah well (?) … we were all very proud of our Aboriginal heritage and we were all very proud of our multiculturalism and that we all get along well and … Kerry: mm … yeah … it’s that sort of thing that makes ???????????????? Kylie: yeah well I guess there was no threat with the Sydney Olympics Kerry: @@@ yeah Kylie: yeah … but … so … when you say y.. you think we’re better than some of the other developed countries … um … can you explain that a bit more? Kylie: … um Kerry: I s’pose ??????? you were thinking of Britain and America? Kylie: yeah maybe Kerry: [????????????????] Kylie: [that was just a bit of a sweeping statement] without anything behind it … um … (5.5) I think there’s a lot of intolerance? Kerry: in Australia? = Kylie: = in Australia .. but I also think there is a lot of tolerance … at the same time there’s … I dunno it.. if it’s half-half I don’t think it is but .. I also think that … um … it’s .. it’s nice to know that there are some other cultures that can come here and do well and be really happy here and that’s … that’s .. what I like to hear .. that that .. that is possible that people can come here and be truly happy and … (1.0) they can do well financially and they can buy their home and they can move up the social ladder if they want to and .. they can educate their children so that .. it’s nice to know that it can be done … in some places Kerry: uhuh Kylie: maybe not … in others Kerry: mm … (2.0) do you think it’s different … in the country? Kylie: uhuh Mark: [mm] Kerry: [to] Melbourne or any of the other cities Mark: yeah … it is … er … when you’re in the country .. it’s it’s .. small townish where everyone already knows everyone else Kylie: mm Mark: so you’re not .. generalising on people who you’ve never met before? you already know the person … (2.5) s. so you know who everyone is … um maybe that … is (??) multiculturalism Kerry: so [you’re] Mark: [because] Kerry: a bit more tolerant [?????] Kylie: [you don’t] … you’re saying you don’t have a negative attitude Mark: no I’m saying with people in the country Kylie: ye[ah th]at’s Mark: [that’s] Kylie: um that’s what I meant Mark: yeah … yeah Kerry: they don’t have a negative attitude Mark: no well I just .. think that um … once you get to know the.. the people which is what happens in small towns you ge.. sort of know everyone … you wouldn’t really be judging based on where they came from .. if you didn’t like ‘em it would just be because … if you get to know them and they .. you just didn’t get along not because … you were looking at them and they look like they’re from … another part of the world that you don’t .. know very much about Kerry: okay = Mark: = but when you’re in the city you just .. you see people who you’ve never met before all the time in .. interactions … sometimes you .. erm .. your subconscious part of your brain makes a judgement for you Kerry: mm Mark: s.. … see how .. what do you think about the country Kylie: um .. I grew up in the country … and my experience .. to that was probably very .. different .. it’s .. it’s .. I’ve never thought of it until you said then but it is quite true … if .. like there was two um Filipino boys that started at my school … and that was a big thing ‘cos .. we’d never had Asians at our school … a:nd … we liked them … we all liked them .. and that was maybe a personal thing we may have … our .. views of .. people from the Philippines may have been quite positive ‘cos that was our only … insight into it … but in general I have to say that .. um … (1.0) this is … (1.0) my country town I don’t know … Mark: um where is [??] Kylie: [in] Drouin Gippsland Mark: ah = Kylie: = are … er so intolerant to anything that’s not white heterosexual … (1.0) Anglo … you know like .. my .. parents have just moved .. house .. embarrassingly they’ve moved next door .. they’ve built a house next door (breath) .. and this um .. couple from … the former Yugoslavia um .. have moved in from Sydney … um … Dad s:ays they don’t do a lot to help their own situation because .. he was sort of saying … that I mean they’re friendly but he said when other people wave out (?) or whatever they sometimes just don’t wave back or … but um I think that they would know no-one in that town .. because she goes into the supermarket with her scarf on and … she’d probably be the only person .. well she would be .. the only person in Drouin who’d do that .. and people would laugh at her Kerry: mm Kylie: I know she.. I know they’re not accepted .. in that town … and I think that’s really tragic ‘cos … no-one’s even given them a go and … they’re just normal retired people that have come down to .. live in a nice peaceful surrounding and Kerry : mm Kylie: … um … (3.0) yeah I d.. I dunno I just found it .. really intolerant of anything that … didn’t .. fit their … (1.0) normal category Kerry: but like you said at school that was a positive experience for you [I wonder] Kylie: [yeah] Kerry: if kids are just .. you know kids are naturally more tolerant of people looking different they don’t quite .. they don’t have that judgement there do they it’s okay they look different [and] Kylie: [yeah] Kerry: they’re kind of interested by it Kylie: yeah Kerry: but it’s not .. [the] Kylie: [y..] Kerry: re’s not a prejudice there because they look different [I don’t think] Kylie: [if it.. if there] is I think it’s coming from home Kerry: yeah yeah ... well that’s true yeah I suppose so [‘cos] Kylie: [mm] Kerry: naturally I think they’re just .. it wouldn’t worry them until [???] Kylie: [no] Kerry: their parents … [and ??] Kylie: [and because] these two boys were like really cool .. according to us you know they were .. they always wore really good clothes and .. they could dance really well we were going through the stage of Saturday night discos and .. you know they were really great dancers and everyone really admired them Kerry: mm Kylie: and I know that … (2.0) sort of whatever they’d wear .. the next week people would come to school with the same clothes on or whatever and .. yeah it was probably a positive experience for … most of the students = Kerry: = but it could easily have been the other way [couldn’t it] Kylie: [yeah] Kerry: ‘cos if that .. like [you] Kylie: [yeah] Kerry: said that was your only exposure to Filipinos Kylie: yeah Kerry: and it was a good one so [you’ve] Kylie: [yeah] Kerry: always had a positive attitude but it could’ve quite easily have… Mark: something I’ve noticed is the scarves that some Muslims wear Kerry: mm Mark: even though they’re to do with the religion it’s kind of anti-social? like fitting in to our general society? Kerry: [mm] Mark: [it’s] .. people .. when you’re ... friendly to someone you .. you look into their face and their hair and .. and covering it up is just … (1.0) doesn’t really show us that you’re sort of .. I reckon when you when you’re judging someone you always look at their face [and] Kerry: [mm] Mark: it’s er it’s just important like … you just wouldn’t trust someone with a mask on as much as you would .. Kerry: yeah Mark: without a mask and so um … [so it] Kerry: [???] Mark: doesn’t really help Kylie: no I guess there’s a fine line there between keeping your own ... traditions? Mark: yeah Kylie: and .. assimilating into a new society? Kerry: mm Kylie: by … if they take it off they’re breaking with their traditions … [if] Mark: [yeah] Kylie: they leave it on … people’ll be saying they’re not getting into their new society so … Mark: so um .. probably the idea is that they’d have to ... sort of reach out in other ways … sort of talk to people a bit more Kylie: yeah Mark: sort of .. just interact a bit … like people know that it’s er … nothing bad they’re not trying to hide it’s just a religious belief Kylie: I had um … there was a girl in one of my classes last year … and I’ve never seen anything other than her eyes and .. I always feel really bad ‘cos I’m sure I must walk past her and not say hello ‘cos I don’t know what … Kerry: ye[ah] Kylie: [I] can’t tell whether it’s her or not … and that must happen … Mark: if they have the ones wh.. where it’s just the eyes for all you know that could be a guy Kylie: yeah y.. yeah I got .. like I just .. walking past her in the school yard and I can’t tell if .. Kerry: mm Kylie: it’s her or not so .. Mark: yeah Kylie: they must get that a lot with people that … whereas I’d walk past and go “oh hi Mark” Kerry: mm Kylie: I can’t .. and .. and she must s:ee all these people walking past her that she knows and not Kerry: but she must understand that Kylie: oh [absolutely and she’s …] Kerry: [?????????????????] each other they must Kylie: yeah Kerry: unless they know each other very well and see each [other] Kylie: [yeah] Kerry: [a lot] Kylie: [be normal] to them .. yeah Kerry: yeah so I suppose they wouldn’t take it the wrong way Kylie: mm Kerry: but I know what you mean about sort of like the … it.. it comes across as a mask which in our society would be quite defensive … ‘cos another thing like that is eye contact … (1.0) um we look at people when we talk to them and a lot .. nations don’t … now if I’m talking to you and I’m sort of looking over here and there it really looks .. I come across as quite shifty .. and suspicious in our culture .. but a lot of other cultures .. it’s actually rude to look at people directly because it’s a challenge so a lot of Indian cultures [for] Kylie: [mm] Kerry: example = Kylie: = keep the head down Kerry: will look away it’s actually a sign of respect … but when we see that we just have a totally different … view of someone who doesn’t look you in the eye so you often sort of go … (1.0) “God all Indians are.. are really shifty” or something and it just comes from this … purely cultural thing where .. they’re actually trying to be polite and do the right thing and we sort of take it the wrong way Kylie: mm Kerry: … so it’s … (1.0) I guess .. and it .. the thing with the scarves is okay because people understand that that is tradition and it’s religion … but the eye contact thing unless someone tells you that you’re gonna just get the wrong opinion about people and it’s.. I think there’s so many misunderstandings across cultures Kylie: yeah Kerry: because of stuff like that that we just .. what’s polite in one culture just isn’t … in another Kylie: mm Kerry: .. yeah … (2.0) Kylie: and people don’t always question whether it’s just a difference in culture if it’s not the same as their own then they just .. you know they wouldn’t go “oh I wonder if eye contact in India is a different [thing]” Kerry: [absolutely] Kylie: they’d just go “oh they’re looking elsewhere so they’re shifty Kerry: [yeah] Kylie: [‘cos] in my culture you don’t do that” [so they might] Kerry: [that’s right] Kylie: not question that .. their way of doing it might be just different and … that mean (?) doesn’t mean the same [as in] Kerry: [that’s right] Kylie: your own Kerry: yeah … (3.0) Kylie: we.. I’ve .. that’s what I’ve really enjoyed about travelling … is that … your .. you become … a minority and so you don’t take for granted any of your own things because … Kerry: yeah Kylie: um … (1.0) their way of doing it for now is gonna be the way of doing it [because] Kerry: [yeah] yeah Kylie: you’re.. you’re in .. with them Kerry: yeah yeah Kylie: so you do start to question … the differences rather than just assume that your way … (1.0) was the [only way] Kerry: [that’s right] and this .. that whole country you’re in are doing it all wrong Kylie: mm Kerry: yeah so you go to India and nobody looks at you and you still think they’re all shifty Kylie: [mm] Kerry: [and] it’s like .. at some stage it’s gonna have to click that .. okay this @ [is the way they do it but it means] Kylie: [maybe this means] some[thing else] Kerry: [something] else [yeah] Kylie: [yeah] Kerry: yeah Kylie: yeah … (3.0) Kerry: what do you think um … and going back to our culture .. what do you think a good person is … if I asked you to write down a list of ten qualities … [what] Mark: [um] Kerry: would they be Mark: honesty … (2.5) er … (2.5) Kylie: that’d be number one I think Mark: yeah Kylie: yeah … (2.0) um … (1.0) someone that would make you .. make you happy? Kerry: uhuh Kylie: someone that can .. who you can have a laugh with … someone that’s um … (1.0) you can trust? Mark: yeah … that sort of goes with the honesty Kylie: yeah and [someone being ??] Mark: [being trustworthy] generally … um … (3.5) someone who can … (2.0) laugh at themselves Kylie: mm Kerry: mm Mark: … (1.5) ‘cos people aren’t very fun to be around if they .. they can’t make fun of themselves Kylie: mm Mark: can’t see the lighter side of their own … (1.0) mis.. mis.. guided ??? along the ??? er … Kylie: someone who cares about you … and is interested in you Mark: yeah .. so s:omeone who’s not self-centred Kylie: yeah … (10.0!!!!!!!) someone who sees the good in everyone? .. well not everyone but sees the good in people? Kerry: mm Mark: yeah so … (1.5) they’re not shallow then Kylie: yeah Mark: um … (9.0) I can’t really think of anything else Kerry: ????????????????????? Kylie: @@@@ Kerry: ????
http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/source/LaTrobeMark#Raw