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Lisa & Fiona (Text)

Item metadata
Speaker:
participant,Lisa,37 participant,Fiona,31
Description :
Participants were informed that the researcher was looking at the general differences between French and Australian English speakers’ conversational styles, and were not given any further specific information. The researcher's own participation in the conversation was limited to asking questions on certain topics to initiate the conversation between the two speakers, and to adding comments from time to time. The participants were asked to talk to each other rather than to the researcher, although she was often included in the conversation. An attempt was made to ensure that the conversations were as similar as possible in terms of set-up, length and topics discussed, (although not all of the topics were covered in every conversation). To this end the researcher had prepared a list of topics on which to ask the participants for their opinion; these included such issues as life in Australia, the difference between French and Australian English speakers, multiculturalism, the role of honesty in a relationship, the importance of expressing one’s opinion, and the difference between tu and vous (the familiar and polite forms of you in French) for the French speakers.
ns1:ParticipantRelation
strangers
Participants :
Lisa (female, 37, Australian, manager, three weeks spent in France), Fiona (female, 31, Australian, student, no time spent in France)
Audience :
Small Group
Communication Context :
Face to Face
Related Document :
Lisa & Fiona (Raw), Raw http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/source/LaTrobeLisa#Audio Lisa & Fiona (Original), Original Lisa & Fiona (Text), Text
Interactivity :
Dialogue
Word Count :
9285
Mode :
Spoken
Plaint Text :
http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/items/LaTrobeLisa#Text
ns1:Setting
Unfamiliar to both (researcher's home)
ns1:lengthOfRecording
44 minutes 26 seconds
ns1:numberOfPeople
3
Creator
Kerry Mullan
Identifier
Lisa & Fiona
Title
Lisa & Fiona
Discourse Type :
Interactive Discourse
Recording Date :
17.06.2001
Document metadata
Custodian :
Kerry Mullan
Data Owner :
Kerry Mullan
Transcript format :
DOCX
File :
Transcrp - Lisa & Fiona.docx
ID :
LaTrobeLisa#Text
Name :
Lisa & Fiona - Transcript
Creator
Kerry Mullan
Extent:
9285
Identifier
Transcrp - Lisa & Fiona-text.txt
Title
Lisa & Fiona - Transcript LaTrobeLisa#Text
Type
Text

Transcrp - Lisa & Fiona-text.txt — 50 KB

File contents

Lisa & Fiona  170601
26  minutes)


and er how much time have you spent over there probably  oh you know an enormous amount of time like three weeks

right

erm all up but sort of couple of no probably  been I’ve been a couple of times once just to Paris and  once  to  down
where Heather and Robert are in Montcuque and erm ah you know and I was prepared for this rude French  stereotype  and  not  seen
evidence of them

it’s funny isn’t it it’s just yeah but they do have this reputation

I know

‘cos a lot of the French speakers I’ve taped I’ve said you know what’s your idea of a  typical  French  person  blah  blah
blah and they’ll actually say “oh well I know we’ve got this reputation of being really arrogant or rude” have  you  come  across
many French speakers

not really I mean I’ve come across the stereotype but not not in actual French speakers

right

yeah

yeah it is it’s interesting

mm

but it’s supposed to be from the way they communicate like the communication styles they tend to  be  quite  argumentative
it’s very important to them to have an opinion and to share it and 

 you see that’s  exactly  like  me  perhaps  that’s  why  it
didn’t bother me

well maybe it’s a 

 a although my because I don’t know you know my French is so you know hello and goodbye  and  thanks
and please

yeah

erm perhaps I didn’t get I dunno I just er I think I missed it

yeah don’t know it’s interesting well I might s might ask you that question then ‘cos  it’s  quite  relevant  er  is  it
always important to give your opinion do you think Is it important to have one and is it important to give it

I think it’s important to have one

mm

erm I guess not about generally everything but sort of mainstream stuff I constantly am amazed at Australians  aren’t  very
good at erm I mean don’t Australians have well thought opinions on stuff

mm

but like serious stuff they can talk to you about the football but if you ask them about  erm  er  I  dunno    government
social policies most of them’d probably look quite blankly at you

do you find that as well

yeah the bulk of Australians I find that erm people actually either have no opinion or have an opinion  and  I  prefer  to
have  erm an open mind like have an opinion but have it erm able to be changed there’ll be lots  of  people  you  read  their
opinions you know when they write to The Age or to the Herald Sun you know whoever they write to editors and they  say  you  know
“this is this is my opinion and this is the way it is” and you sort of think “mm is that ” it’s sort of they they say it as  if
it’s fact

yeah

mm

erm yeah like very opinionated erm  either that or they don’t really think it’s their business

mm

and I think both of those two extremes are really quite unhealthy um yeah

what’d you say opinionated means

unflexible in your opinions

and vocal in your opinions and NOT prepared to listen to anybody else

and vocal

I think i from  I  I’m happy with people who have an opinion erm  and er I mean I’m I think  I’ve  got    I
have fairly strong views on things

mm

erm that probably aren’t gonna change however I’m pretty tolerant a I know the fact that like that’s what  I  think  is
exactly that it’s just me

mm

mm

and what I think and I’m quite happy that that  I think it’s great that er  you  know  there’s  diverse  opinion  because
that’s what makes things healthy

mm

so I think you know I’m the kind to like people to have a view on stuff but

particularly  straight out you know there’s like so many different people that 

I believe                   yeah                                   that’s right but be tolerant of others’ views

mm

and you know because I think it doesn’t mean it’s right

mm

but do you think opinionated has a negative connotation in 

 I think opinionated does have a  a    opinionated  I  think  as  Fiona  said
reflects that in inability to take anybody else’s opinions on board

Fiona:/Kerry: mm

and that you’re very stuck on your own opinions

How important is being truthful in a relationship



and when I say relationship I mean any relationship like friends whatever partners

I used to think it was of the utmost importance but I think through for me it’s through studying  other  cultures  that  I
see that actually sometimes the truth is not as important as people’s relationship and people’s erm … I mean  there  are  certain
relationships where there’s no point being entirely truthful because it would just hurt the other person and if you can  sort  of
temper the truth with not lies but with sort of withholding some of the truth maybe

mm

I think that’s important whereas I used to think you could say everything so long as you were being truthful that  it  was
okay but I don’t think that’s entirely true um but I think if i if I’m put on the spot I’ll be  entirely  truthful  I  mean  if
someone asks me a question point blank I’d find it very hard to lie and not feel that was bad

mm

yeah I agree

but yeah 

 I think you you have to be careful with people’s feelings and and that


mmm

but if someone asked me a question point blank I couldn’t l lie and I don’t  I

mm

wouldn’t wanna be wi erm truthfulness is one thing that I find that I value very much in                       people

mm me too

 I don’t erm er no I have erm a situation with my mother who at times lies and I really find that hard to  cope
with

Kerry: mm

is that ‘cos it’s your mother ‘cos you don’t that’s it’s just that whole concept of mm yeah

no                                   mm yeah                             and  I  think  I
mean I work in erm er a large business and I find some of the shmoozing and lying and carrying on really hard  to  deal  with  I
mean I’ve left previously left a job because I was asked to to fudge some numbers and wasn’t comfortable with it 

mmm                  see I would only lie to protect someone else’s feelings that would  be
the only excuse for lying in my opinion and even then you’d want the lie to be as close as possible to the truth  you’d  want  it
to be a a white lie as they talk about rather than a big fat lie

mm

yeah

yeah I mean it de it depends what it is it’s you know yeah do you like my new dress not exactly no in fact I  think  it’s
the worst thing I’ve ever seen but you’re not gonna say that to somebody it’s one it’s not a really a a it’s not a  it’s  not  a
life or death it’s not a really important question anyway

no I had to say that 

right yeah 

 and you don’t want to hurt their feelings if someone said to me is my husband  sleeping  with  Judith
down the road and I knew I would have to say

yeah

if I thought if I knew it was true yes

yes yeah 

 I probably wouldn’t say yes I’d try and say yes without saying yes exactly like you’d you’d say  “well  well
I I have actually seen him over there a couple of times like in the last week but I don’t know” I I 

you’d drop a hint I if I didn’t if I actually didn’t know defini like if  I  especially  if  I   hadn’t  seen  them
having a snog somewhere I wouldn’t say yes

yeah 

 if I knew it would have to be that sort of question is you have to really know your stuff

yeah yeah 

 mm

but if you did you wouldn’t lie about it

uh uh

yeah if someone lent you a book for example erm a if a good friend of yours lent you what they considered to be  you  know
the best book they’d ever read and they lent it to you and you read it and you think it’s a pile of crap  would  you  tell  them
I perhaps wouldn’t tell them it was a pile of crap I’d probably couch it in terms like “yeah it was okay it  wasn’t  really
my style of book” or something like that

mm

I de I’d certainly tell them that I didn’t enjoy it as much as they did

right 

 I’d try and find the good in it I’d try and say “oh it  had  a  fantastic  plot”  or  “I  really  liked  this
character” or erm it would depend on how close the friendship is too actually if it’s a close friendship I’d probably try and  be
honest but if they’re not quite so close I wouldn’t care I’d say just say “yeah it was good it was great” there was actually a

 I wonder if that’s not an age thing a bit ‘cos I think when I was younger  I  would’ve  done
exactly that

yeah just one of my friends lent me a book and I I didn’t enjoy it at all and I know when I give it back to her I’m  gonna
say “yeah it was great I really enjoyed it” and I just didn’t enjoy it at all but I again there’s no point saying  I  enjoyed  it
or didn’t enjoy it there’s no point in you know causing conflict and there’s no

I guess it’s a it’s a bit like that do you like my dress thing isn’t it it’s not really worth  making  an
issue about 

well         yeah         I         thought          that


 but why do you think it would cause conflict if you if you actually said “oh I didn’t really  like
it” why’d it I mean that really shouldn’t cause conflict but it probably would 

mmm

it wouldn’t with my friends

right

I think because she lent it to me because she thought I’d enjoy it it was about it was a book about words and she  thought
I’d enjoy it ‘cos it was my field of study and she’d done it meaning to be generous

mm

and for me to then say “I didn’t like it”

Kerry:/Lisa: mm

would be a rebuff to her

okay yeah

erm

er yeah and I mean probably don’t do it with my friends as much as I would with erm um my dad’s remarried and er his  wife
is lovely and we get on really well but she’s got quite odd taste in things and I always get a  bit  panicky  round  my  birthday
because I I know I’m gonna get something and it’s gonna be like “mm nice thought”

yeah

and you know and there is no way in the world I would want to hurt her feelings

yes

so I merrily chirp along and say “oh lovely 

yeah I tell my stepmother that I love the red nail  polish  and  red  lipstick  that  she
gives me and it’s whao I’m not at all into those sort of things 

see      yeah                               and that’s and it’s just not worth being truthful  in
those instances 

no                       I’ve even worn some of the things she’s given me  when  when  I’ve
gone over to visit just to make her feel                  

oh                                    I know I’ve I’ve done that too 

oh I love the orange shirt orange is my colour

yeah

ugh

what was I gonna s yes when my grandmother wasn’t blind she used to give me these lovely every year these lovely I’m  not
even sure that you can purchase them any more underwear pan underpants that came up to about here and  they  were  always
these psychedelic pinks and greens and oranges with a bit of cheap lace on them they were foul

oh no

they sound fantastic they’d be collectors’ items by now

I wish I’d kept them you know they 

my mum used to give me underwear that came up yeah  past
my waist and then one year I told her that I didn’t like them I was being really honest and she got me  really  revolting  frilly
really like overly disgusting 

 like crutchless undies or something

‘cos I told her the other ones were daggy so she bought me something that she thought was really really sexy or  something
like that

but it’s interesting that you can’t even tell your mum ‘cos I know I couldn’t

Fiona:/Lisa: no

you know the stuff my mum gives me I just say “thanks” and

yeah

I’m the same with my mum 

and then hope that they don’t ask you how much you like it because I don’t want to lie too much

yeah like

you know ah

well I recently it was my birthday a couple of months ago and Mum sent me a picture and it was  actually  quite  nice  but
when I spoke to her on the phone she said “oh and and let me know if you like it ‘cos it’s a set of two and  I’ll  send  you  the
next one for your wedding anniversary” now how could y if I really hated it how could I actually put in that  position  say  to
her “no no actually I don’t I don’t like it that much don’t buy the second one”

and the other one’s in the mail

yeah yeah exactly so it’s like as it happens I did quite like them so it’s alright they’re in the front bedroom

oh

I’ll show you them on the way out yeah so it was it wasn’t too bad but I mean it’s funny you  can’t  even  tell  your  mum
that 

I actually don’t like getting presents because I don’t like being put on the spot to  have  to
like things and I don’t really want many things

mm

so I sort of say “look don’t buy me things” ‘cos I’ll end up throwing them out even I don’t  tell  them  that  I’ll  throw
them out but that’s the truth

yeah

and when you have to open them in front of pe I’m actually lu  my  my  family  are  all  interstate  so  I
actually get a bit of breathing space because they normally come in the post and I can you know open them

yeah

and think “mm how am I gonna put a positive on this” whereas it’s not like getting

practise saying “it’s lovely it’s lovely”

erm them in front of people

yeah

isn’t that awful when you get to open a present and the person’s  sitting  there  and  you’ve  got  to  fake  this  “oh  mm
fantastic”

yeah

and they’re watching your facial expression to make sure that there’s not even the slightest trace of disappointment

and I have got apparently a very erm expressive face and I’m not good I’m a shocking liar 

me too                       yeah

because it’s something I don’t choose to do unless I really have to and I don’t mask my emotions very well

mm


which is a good thing I think but

yeah

erm i it gets me into strife at times

yeah mm I’m I’m the same like I actually really like that  that I’m open about my emotions but every now and again  I  think
God I wish I could hide  disappointment or anger or

mm 

 mm I do too ‘cos it com becomes an issue for me in the workplace a bityeah could imagine actually

mm

mm I then slip into the “emotional female” stereotype that

mm

men do so love to pu push

yes yeah

whereas you see it as a strength most of the time but every now and again 

mm well it’s interesting ‘cos that was one of my other questions actually erm is being emotional seen  as  a  good  thing
do you think

not in the workplace it’s not  yet I  for me personally I don’t care if people   I  I  think
it’s kind of good that people feel that they can express how they feel erm it’s not you know if I’m having a bad day  I’m  having
a bad day

mm

and I I don’t see why I need to protect people from that it’s not like it affects my ability to do things

mm

erm but I know that I have to ‘cos society’s just not ready for it

mm

we like everything you know if people seem to think they’re meant to be happy a hundred percent of the  time  and  that’s
their normal behaviour and I mean that’s just garbage

Kerry:/Fiona: mm

nice idea

I think it it depends entirely on what the emotion is and what the context is I mean I sing in a choir and I really  enjoy
it and I’m on stage smiling and  I’ve had lots of people in the audience come up afterwards  and  say  oh  lovely  to  see  you
enjoying yourself because you’re supposed to be enjoying yourself you know and I think if you see people on  stage  who  aren’t
expressing an emotion then that’s really strange because they should be enjoying it if they’re not w w  why what’s  going  on
or if they’re not expressing it why you know if they look po-faced on stage it’s really quite strangeyeah
but in a work situation you’re not ev I dunno I feel like everything’s supposed to be your emotions are supposed  to  be
understated erm

do you think that’s just in the work situation though or is it  sort of in general really

I’m not sure actually I mean I’m an I’m an emotional sort of person and I express all my emotions and I know that  bothers
some people

/ Lisa: mm

it really does erm I think there’s also gender issues I think women who express anger that’s really  quite  or  or
if they express  I dunno I think there are some emotions that women aren’t expected to express they’re  supposed  to  be  happy
and bubbly and smiley but if they get angry or erm frustrated then that’s I dunno

yeah

it’s they’re not they’re not supposed to express those sort of emotions

erm I know in my  own experience I am normally a fairly up, bubbly, happy person and when I’m not even if I’m  in  a  bad
mood if I’m just having a day when I’m feeling a quiet and not feeling up, very out there people will ask me

what’s up 

 what’s up why are you in a bad mood  and on about the tenth time I actually am 

there’s nothing gonna put you in a bad mood quicker than people saying 

mmmmm

so you know i it it’s  interesting  that  you  know  when  I’m  just
generally a it it happens when I’m rea you know if I’m really under the pump or busy

mm

I I kind of retreat into what I’m doing mm

and don’t want to talk to people and people come up and talk to me and I’ll be  shorter with them than I  normally  would
you know like yeah okay I can do that now but I can’t you know haven’t got time to chat  and people then think I’m in  a
bad mood

yeah

mm

and it’s astounding and I’ve had you know I just don’t even know how to deal with it

yeah or you just shouldn’t be too happy the rest of the time you see

no I’ll look a bit more miserable  miserable bitch

yes that’s right that’ll do then people’ll get used to it

they’re getting used to it at the moment actually

actually you were just asking before about erm about if it’s just in  the  workplace  I  know  on  public  transport  I’ve
laughed at things that are

ah

really funny and everyone looks at you but sometimes things are really funny and you can’t help but laugh at them

public transport is fascinating

mm

everybody’s sits there

and tries to be not there

and nobody talks I mean people hones I I’ll often have a chat with people

mm

you know having a nice day and they honestly look at you they think I’m a loop loopy  which I may well  be  but    they
really do look at you as if there’s something strange

mm

the other day something

that’s true you’re not supposed to 

the other day I was I’m on a tram and when the tram stopped three cars went past and  nearly  hit  this
old lady and most of the tram just sat there in complete silence as if nothing’d happened and there were  a  couple  of  us  like
getting really agitated by it saying no this is really awful look something bad’s happened

mm

but everyone else was trying to pretend they weren’t there

mm

erm and we were trying to encourage the tra the driver to get their number plate ‘cos you could see it  and  there  were
just the three cars in front of him

yeah

and  most people were trying to  pretend that nothing had happened and sit there quietly

do you I’ve 

 read their book 

 do you think that’s changed I kind of feel like that  it’s a real society thing

mm 

 where we’re so focused on ourselves that stuff happening to other people we just try and ignore

mm I don’t know what it is people don’t seem to think it’s their responsibility to look out for other people

no and but it

or

and I mean it’s even like communities have fallen away

mm

and  Flemington’s actually quite interesting because I still feel like I’m part of the community I mean I can  walk  down
the s shop and the bottle shop bloke says g’day and the butcher says g’day and 

yeah

but that’s that’s kind of fast

mm

going away

yeah

and I think that’s all that sort of stu like

Brunswick’s still got that kind of feel which is nice  a little bit but  not  not  as
much as when I was growing up I don’t think

I grew up in a country town so 

oh 

I’m kind of used to that

mm

but erm  yeah it’s sort of  th people do turn a blind eye to stuff like that

well I I saw in the paper a while ago there was this picture of a corpse on a beach in Italy  I  don’t  know  if  you  saw
that

I did and they kept swimming  no-one did anything about it

the corpse was there for hours before anyone did anything about it  on
a really busy crowded beach and they just 



oh my goodness

it was some it was right you know a a resort area

mm

of Italy

yeah 

 wow

and erm someone was telling me recently there’s this there’s a program on SBS once a  week  I  can’t  remember  what  it’s
called but they did the same thing they put this they actually planted a corpse somewhere I think it was in  Canada  the  US  and
Britain

isn’t that unethical

well they probably didn’t go through the ethics committee before they did that one but they  planted  a  corpse  somewhere
and it within the three countries sort of saw

mm

timed how long it took someone to actually try and do something about this and we won in  Britain  apparently  except  the
guy who actually did something about it wasn’t British he was Indian or something like you know

wow

over on holiday and just had a you know a different attitude to this but just plonked a corpse  in  a  public  place
and just waited to see what happened 

 wow yeah one time I was in the city and  there  was  erm  a  man  ramming  into
another car and at the the the erm other car had a woman in it who had a veil over her as a   obviously  a  Muslim  and  I  I
found that really quite disturbing because obviously I mean he was really like  smashing  into  her  car  and  she  was  just  so
vulnerable she had a little daughter next to her on the front seat and it was just like you sort of looked  at  the  picture  and
you thought like someone’s got to help this woman and no-one was like all the cars were just driving past and you know trying  to
get out of their way and I just I couldn’t believe it I was on my bicycle and I had to go to the police station  I took down  his
number plate I couldn’t just ignore it like

yeah

this poor woman and yet most people do I mean most people just don’t know what  to  do  or  don’t  feel  they  should  get
involved or  I don’t know  try to pretend it’s not going on but I wonder like what they did when they got home  whether  they
worried about this poor woman

yeah

you know

yeah ‘cos I mean  you see it  a heroin overdoses and stuff are fairly common around

mm

where I am and erm the number of people who just you know look and actually step over them

mm

in up here in Flemington you mean

no in town where I work 

oh where you work

 train station and stuff Melbourne Central there’s actually quite a healthy heroin trade

mm

erm mm er if it could be called healthy

yeah 

perhaps not a good choice of words

the dealers consider it healthy yeah

but erm i I mean people  j and I’ve done it too I not step over them I I’ve seen  other  people  having
 struggling and collapse and I’ve just automatically assumed it’s an overdose

mm

which is not not er probably a good thing

mm

but people just won’t stop and help people

yeah no it’s funny  well not funny 



I think also with emo I mean just coming back to the emotion thing I think  not crying a lot of  people  don’t  know
how to deal with other people crying

mm

but on the flip side of that my friends that I can cry in front of we’ve got very close friendships  because  we  can  cry
cry in front of each other

mm

if that’s kind of a bit of a erm bit of a gauge of how good friends we are

mm

if we can cry in front of each other then we’re then we’re close and if we can’t well  yeah we’re a bit more distant

yeah it’s interesting ‘cos I usually when there’s a French person and an Australian here

mm

you get quite different views of of expressing emotions ‘cos in France it’s just a lot more acceptable and people  can  be
angry  like you were saying in the workplace or

mm

whatever people get angry and it’s fine it’s sort of accepted more and there is actually a category of  murder  in  France
called “a crime of passion” 

 yeah

which I just think is absolutely amazing ‘cos like we just wouldn’t have that they

no

kind of consider and yet people here would kill people in a a jealous rage or whatever  that’s  all  it  is  but  it  just
doesn’t qualify as having a separate 

 yeah

 yeah erm yeah I’ve actually got a friend who’s just broken  up  with  his  partner
and he’s really angry at the moment and I kind of have trouble with that anger like I feel

mm

which is funny ‘cos I know that of course he’s angry ‘cos you know he’s just broken up with his partner but I  still  feel
that he should be able to control it or contain it somehow it’s really weird

yeah

and I sort of feel bad for thinking that I feel like I should be more sympathetic towards but I do feel that you  should
be able to you should be able to control your anger

mm

erm even though it’s perfectly accepta… of course it’s of course it’s it’s a natural  reaction  when  you’ve  broken  your
relationship’s ended

yeah

I think we or Australians tend to th you know sort of like you know get over it

yeah 

 it’s that sort of  that’s our answer for everything get over it get down 

yeah

get down the pub and have a quiet  beer    you’ll
be right

you’ll be right



it’s all good that’s actually one of my one of my favourite expressions at the moment oh it’s all good you know  people’ll
say oh this is happening this is happening oh it’s it’s all good it’s all good

yeah

nothing’s nothing’s a problem it’s all good

breath…

so I think in the sorry just going back to the anger in the workplace thing

mm

it can be acceptable but it tends to be when men certain men who

yeah

can get away with it and that’s about it

exactly I don’t think women are all like s even senior women aren’t allowed to 

no

no it’s just seen as being hysterical  or something 

 mm but there’s this erm a particular discussion I was in involved  in  and  I  was
getting quite heated and there were two other men the two men started getting heated and erm a  afterwards  like  b  both  of
them were getting really angry at me for getting angry and afterwards one of these girls came up to me  and  she  said  look  you
know the only reason they were angry with you was because you’re a just ‘cos you’re female like she was she was saying they  were
yelling they were raising their voices they were using expletives they were being really aggressive  and  all  I  was  doing  was
being erm eh persistent in my argument

mm

and she said it was really quite interesting seeing how people were really like it’s it seems acceptable for  men  to  get
angry even yelling and being ‘cos that’s sort of seen as typical male behaviour and yet for a woman to do it it’s  really  
um  quite confronting

mm

yeah a it’s interesting you know erm I often get told people are scared of me at work

yeah 

 ‘cos I’m perceived as fairly erm strong mm yeah 

and

people are scared of me

that that you know that’s an interesting thing because I don’t I don’t see myself like that at all

mm

but people  you know it’s er don’t tangle with Lisa it’s a

yeah 

 and is that people under you or the same

yeah

level

no probably under me

mm yeah ‘cos er so there’s an authority 

under me that sounds really nice doesn’t it

so 

right er yeah 

yeah who work for you

yeah

so there’s an authority thing there as well 

 probably not people who people who work for me probably wouldn’t see me like that it’s

yeah

the people

ah

who I mean deal with me on a on certain issues right yeah

mm

yeah well you just mentioned something about a the typical Australian there so what is a typical Australian what’s  what’s
the stereotypical Australian and do they really exist 

laid back very laid back I think  um a bit apathetic um watches the footy cares

 

cares more about the footy than about politics

oh yeah

um

they’re probably higher quality people on the football field though



 about politicians

have you got a man or a woman in mind 

 I’ve got both I had a man initially but I can see married  like  a  married  couple  as
being your typical Australians um  yeah I don’t see the you know the old stereotype of erm you know the bloke  with  the  beer  gut  and  the  you  know  that  was
portrayed fairly heavily and promoted you know through various things tha don’t see that as the typical you know Australian 

no

 not till you go into the country 

 yeah see I 

not till you go out into the country

yeah oh

see I’m quite a city girl but living in one of those sort of outer suburbs

right 

 you know yeah  blue collar

can’t recommend 

yeah

erm my dad’s still in the country

mm

and he’s quite stereotypical

is he 

  country  thinks Pauline Hanson’s okay 

o::h dear

yeah we just don’t talk politics at home any more

yeah yeah

talk footy

footy’s safe 

I was gonna say was gonna say to you your typical Australian wouldn’t talk politics it’s

no

just not not an Australian thing to talk about 

 I know I cons I get actually quite er upset with friends who have no interest  and


yeah

 say you know make sort of un  educated comments about people’s behaviour yeah er typical Australian back to that  
erm I don’t even know if there is such a thing any more I just think we’re such a mix 

 we are see I still think of the typical Australian as being Anglo but the more I  think  about  that  that’s  not
actually true these people are Australian like you know when they have those erm when they have ads where  you  can  see  they’re
trying to get like you know six typical Australians and they have at least two people from other ethnic backgrounds

yeah

like Greeks and Italians are so part of the Australian culture they just so are

you don’t even think of them

no exactly exactly

you know non Aus 

 not at all and sa same with um with lo a um not not every  Asian  nationality  but  certainly  like
people from China or Viet Vietnam and those sort of places yeah totally Australian

I still think we’ve got a way to go with the the the cultures that look different yeah

we struggle a bit with that I still have trouble with really black people like that doesn’t st they don’t  strike  me  as
being Australian typically Australian

I think we’re sort of used to the Greek and Italian communities 

yeah

because they don’t look so dissimilar to

no 

 you know it’s still an Anglo-Saxon look effectively

mm

yeah

um but I think we still struggle with people who look different to us we’re not very I I f I don’t  I  think  Australians
are reasonably intolerant

you’re doing very well at anticipating all my questions  are we multicultural like do we are we really multicultural

some of us I think in some ways we are like what’s Australian food and to me Australian food  includes  pasta  it
includes sushi it includes dolmades do you know what I it really does like I think of them as being part of the  Australian  diet
and I don’t th I don’t think it’s at all strange to go down to the markets and grab a couple of dolmades  and  humus  and  that
sort of thing but linguistically no:: like you I’d expect everyone to speak English like and be surprised if people  don’t  speak
English um no I mean li like it’s not that unusual to see like different weddings or hear different music  coming  out  of  you
know people’s you know the builder’s stereo while he’s building or something that’s that’s not strange at all    or  seeing  in
certain parts of Melbourne like particularly Brunswick where I am seeing you know women walking around in saris or  in  you  know
with scarves over their head that’s perfectly normal too I think  but in the workplace like in any  white  collar  workplace  I
don’t think it’s multicultural in some ways like it’s

intresting yeah 

it’s not    um

do you have a lot of different cultures working with you

we do

you do

yeah

okay mm

erm you name it we’ve got them I would suspect

where do you work again

I work for Origin Energy

that’s right yeah

mm 

 and actually we have got pretty much every stereotype covered

yeah but say for example I mean looking at this discourse norms  and
things I think you’d expect an Anglo-Saxon  discourse style in the workplace you’d expect I don’ I mean I dunno like  you  know
whatever things we’ve been talking about you know you’d expect  if there’s a French person you’d expect that  they  still  know
how to behave in an Australian way that they know how much emotion’s acceptable they know how much to  question  their  superiors
they know all those kind of things mm

um

yeah

but it’s interesting how you were saying we still struggle with it

mm

I mean do you think

I think we do I think i Flemington and Brunswick are probably not

your typical 

 your typical examples

mm

I think the people who live in these areas are er well educated pretty broadminded

mm 

 got fairly strong social values

mm

that that’s just the sort of people

mm

 and hence multiculturalism around here is probably a not an issue I think if you go out to the country where  my  dad
is for example in fact he said to me “we’re getting some bloody Iranians coming to live here

mm

a few people from the a a few refugees and they’re moving ‘em up here I don’t think we want that”

yeah

I’m like yeah I didn’t even want to start on it

no

‘cos  and just so it there’s em  and I mean people er I think you only need to  look  at  the  number  of
people who have erm taken the Pauline Hanson sort of platform and run with it

mm

and it scares the hell out of me how many people have

yes

really think she’s got sensible things to say

mm

erm  er a and that really just makes me think as a nation we’re not very good at it

no even like not even at that e extreme I went to a school where there was about a quarter of the  girls  were  um  from
Asian backgrounds and there wasn’t much mingling between the Asian students and the you know the rest of us and  I  mean  the
rest weren’t exactly homogenous I mean there were lots of Greeks and Italians but there wasn’t  much  other  variety  other  than
that

mm

and um yeah so there was sort of this other group that they weren’t mixed so they were kind of I mean  it’s  multicultural
in a sense but and I mean they were from all sorts of different um  different  Asian  backgrounds  and  they  mixed  together  so
there’d be like there were a couple of Japanese kids from er er Indonesia from China from Hong Kong from Singapore all  sorts  of
places but  they yeah didn’t really mix

Lisa or Kerry: yeah it’s interesting isn’t it

the two groups and I think there’s a lot of that at at university as well

mm

i er a I I often think about you know  you know not often but I do think about things like when we t  when  other
cultures come to live in Australia yeah

how much do we expect them to 

assimilate 

 assimilate change their culture or are we comfortable  with  them  effectively  maintaining  their  own
culture

mm

and not taking on much of  the Australian culture and I’m kind of not co com  comfortable  with  either
scenario and

mm

I think particularly with erm with some of the Asian cultures that are be and the African cultures that  are  quite
different to ours

yeah

we somehow have to find this sort of middle ground where we’re comfortable  with  them  expressing  and  living  their  own
culture

mm

but there’s also enough of sort of picking up the the general culture

mm

that it all fits together a bit better ‘cos I think that doesn’t seem to work too well

yeah see I’ve got a a friend whose parents are from Hong  Kong
and they’ve brought their kids up in quite a traditional way like they all speak fluent Chinese or Mandarin  I  think  it  is  um
they I mean that they’re  practising Buddhists and they’ve got all these sorts of things but at the  same  time  they’re  quite
well integrated into into Australian society I think that’s for me that’s like the perfect medium 

 yeah

you know like they they all can participate in society they’ve got both um Chinese friends and Anglo-Saxon friends  um  
although for my friend there’s a real identity problem with that that she doesn’t know where she where she fits in

mmm

but um but I still that’s that’s sort of healthier than than being trapped in one or the other 

 yeah I agree

mm

I thi it it I mean it wou it’s hard you know being an Anglo-Saxon you don’t even know how it feels      being 

yeah

that’s right

and it’s so it’s kind of you know

yeah

you don’t want to be trying to tell them what to do 

 yeah

because it’s not something I’ve  lived

mm

I’d say I mean I dunno this is completely trivial in a way but I reckon that’s lovely like in  Melbourne  the  way  you’ve
got little pockets of  of different cultures and I think that  makes it so vibrant like I love you know you go to go  through
to Caulfield and there’s a little sort of Jewish enclave and then you go through I dunno all sorts of areas and there’s  lots  of
little um patches but I don’t think you want those patches to be  enormous Kerry:/Lisa: mmm

like you don’t want to feel like you can’t go there 

yeah  I

yeah ‘cos you create ghe

I

ttos that way

yeah yeah

exactly exactly

that’s right I  and I imagine you know it must be awfully important to maintain  your  sense  of  culture  from  identity
and

yeah

you know I think erm the Aboriginal people have really found that over the last twenty years

mm

as they’ve tried to really  their bring their culture a bit more back to

mm

yeah

to to what it was

yeah

erm so yeah I think it must be  important you know we just don’t have one as Anglo-Saxon  Australians  so  I  mean  we
don’t

yeah 

 see I reckon our culture’s just bits and pieces of other

yeah

people’s cultures 

 we don’t have it  you know if if I got erm if I  decided  to  move  to  another  to  another
country

yeah

I wouldn’t be feeling i I’d just  you we would just fit in

yeah

we don’t we wouldn’t be taking this whole cultural I’ve gotta

mmm

have my swag and my cup of tea or whatever it is

/ Kerry: yeah

or my VB

yeah

we I think Australians are fairly flexible like that yeah

yeah

we’re good travellers a apart from the beer swelling yobbos who do the tours

yes

erm but Australians are good travellers 

I think ‘cos we’re like we have to be open-minded                like

yeah

‘cos we’ve got so many other people in our own country that when we go to other peoples’ countries we kind of you  know  a
bit more open to how we could differ from them

what do you think you’d miss about Australia if you went overseas for a long time if you went     travelling

the clean air

you’ve obviously thinking back to somewhere you’ve been that didn’t have

the clean water  back to India clean air clean water 

 yeah I get you know it depends where you are

yeah

erm I’d miss people more than places though

mm

I’ve moved around Australia a bit so

mm

I’m kind of comfortable with doing that but you miss the people 

 mm

I’d miss the open-ni open-mindedness of Australia too I think because we’re  so  plural  s  because  there’s  so  many
different cultures that we’re quite open to all sorts of things and I think like feminism here’s quite progressive compared  with
a lot of countries  like where there’s so much diversity I think people are just more open-minded 

 I think you’d miss that even if you moved to the country in Australia 

 yeah yeah I’m sure 

‘cos they haven’t heard of feminism yet that’s the f-word

yeah pretty much 

 but like I mean I mean I’ve got a friend who is who’s queer and she’s gone to India and  she’s  looking
for a dyke bar and I’m like Suzanne you’re not gonna find one  I mean if there is if there is  that  sort  of  culture
it’s going to be so: hidden

underground I think 

 ah And I’m sure there is that sort of  culture
but it’s gonna be so: stigmatised



and like and like like in Austr

difficult to find

well like like in Australia if you wanna be a Wikka or whatever that st you know that there’s a some religion that’s  to
do with goddesses and women and it’s

witchcraft basically

yeah it’s witchcraft and you know and like I’ve got I’ve got friends that are that  identify  as  Wikka  and
you can do that in Australia you can be whatever w:ierdarse thing you wanna be

well you could just read the Lonely Planet’s Guide to Gay India I’m sure there is one

 but I mean I mean in Australia like there’s there  almost anything you can imagine you can do um

yeah 

 I really and I’d really miss that too

and y like living in a city I if I if you were asking me about Australia and  I  was  only
considering the environment that I live in I think it’s fantastic I think we’re tolerant I think we’re  pretty  progressive  with
women’s

mm

stuff I think you know there’s a lot of stuff we could do better um as far as looking after our less privileged people 

 yeah

but in general I think it’s fantastic

but even then like we’ve got a welfare system at all which beats you know

yeah exactly

America and lots of other countries 

 you can push me out into the er some of the suburbs and out into the country  I  think
you you get quite a different

yeah

er you know there is definitely less you know I I think of my family in the country they are just not tolerant

mm

yeah I feel a bit I I get stared at for having short hair when I go out into like Ringwood and places like that

yeah you would

and it’s I mean that’s and Ringwood’s not even that far out 

 I can tell you what they’d say about you  with short  hair  don’t  you  be
wearing flannelette shirts round here

yeah ye:ah I actually went back to school which is in Camberwell  and  they
were also asking me what it meant and I’m like it’s it means that I like my hair short

yeah 

it means that I bought a a razor and I I cut my hair that’s it

isn’t it isn’t that a particularly odd comment 

 yeah

what does having short hair mean well

you know if I dyed it red you know or black rather than

it’s actually interesting hair is quite funny I’m I  how  old  am  I  now  thirty
seven

twenty seventeen 

twenty seventeen that’s right  erm er about  er two and a half I dunno coming up for three years ago 

 yeah

I cut my hair very short and went and had it jet black with purple in it

yeah

I loved it  er I was having a mid-life crisis I you know I actually had exactly the same haircut when I was about  twenty
though this time I neglected to have the shaved bits which were when my father didn’t actually speak to me for   the  reason
I had that done when I was young anyhow er I digress but it was really weird here I am this big thirties chick with  purple  hair
one everyone thought I was a lesbian and that’s fine they can think whatever they like   but  all  the  young  I  people  young
people would talk to me on trains

yeah

it was really weird I got this completely  different reaction from people

everyone always comes up to me I don’t know why it is people  yeah

and for once it was nice people were actually talking to my hair you know they’re talking to  rather than my  breasts  so
it was a it was a nice change



yeah people always come up to me like when I’m in the computer labs and someone really wants to print  or  something  like
they always seem to approach me I don’t understand like I think ‘cos I look slightly different that they think  I  dunno  which
which seems strange ‘cos you’d think you’d approach the most like normal looking person 

 yeah well I he it was great having purple hair I know you know

but see in in Australia you can you

the reaction I got was fantastic 

 in Australia you can do it y y Australia you can  do  that  like  there’s  a  whole
communities of Goths you know that have the black and the purple and that’s like

yeah

considering th

I I think I went through that stage when I was a bit younger too 

 but d’you know what I mean    there’s  an  identifiable  Goth
community in Melbourne that’s just like it’s just so freaky having them

well we’ve got a lot of them we’ve  got  bloody  a
whole community of people who still love Elvis

well I that’s it

and get together all the time 

 or people who like go and see Mary Poppins and sing along to it there’s all these kinds  of
little

I went to the Sound Of Music 

did you oh I’d love to go to the Sound Of Music yeah or  like  like  I
saw a group of punks the other day and I thought I thought punks went out in the in the eighties like  there  were  still  people
with the whole pink mohawks and all this sort of

yeah they’d be still there

yeah there are a few of those around still and it’s

yeah and it’s 

 people don’t even look now do they 

 well no exactly exactly 

 and it’s great

yeah

and I I mean I think that’s part of I think that’s a reflection of our multiculturalism I could be  wrong  but  I  think
that’s sort of

mmm

an extension of that but we’re so used to seeing different people

              yeah

doing all sorts of weird things we don’t even bat an eyelid any more

yeah

yeah

that’s right 

 but  I agree and if you’re talking a you know I think there’s a difference just between  I mean  if  you
went to Queensland it’s probably different 

 yeah 

 they they seem to be a little  little different up there

yeah

yeah

a few years behind maybe

no but I  no different to the country peo and it’s not behind it’s just that you know  they’re  not    they’ve  never
been confronted by as much stuff so

mm

if you can’t see it you don’t have to deal with it and they’re comfortable

yeah that’s right yeah yeah

um you know it’ll be I’ll be really I’m  gonna  ring  my
dad and ask him how the Iranians are



that’ll be very int that’ll be 

 be prepared for the response 

 for Loxton which is where he is you know it’s a town of    God  probably  three
and a half thousand when you include the surrounding areas so it’s not huge it’s on the Murray  um and that will be  just  such
a a huge thing for the town 

 yeah it will

it will it’ll be like you know be a front newspaper n on the front on the front of the newspaper no question

really God yeah right well one last question and I’ll let you escape  what’s a good person what qualities  Ah  you’re
you’re lucky ‘cos I’ve been asking people this first and the last person I did this to they said a word of  advice  when  you  do
this taping don’t ask that first ‘cos it’s a really awkward

no I actually think it’s good at the end

question it’s much better at the end 

 now that we’ve asked all these things about being open

yeah yeah



but also you’re more comfortable I suppose just sharing your opinion and talking about it

yeah 

 it’s quite a hard one to start with

I kind of I take it back wh I’m gonna make a really nice er make myself sound like a  fabulous  person  I  don’t
actually think that I’m and I’m tu going to turn it the other way I don’t think there’s bad people  I  think  there’s  people
who do bad things

yeah

but I don’t think people are inherently bad I’ve got a fair bit of faith in human nature

mm

and I think most people are good whatever that means a and I think all it means is you know things like respecting
other people and wanting to do the right thing n you know all that

yeah

sort of stuff and I don’t think people are bad I think they do bad things

mm

I don’t want to add to that ‘cos I’m a bad person  no change that  no I mean I like I think being a good person  does
entail not effe not impinging on other people’s right to do whatever they want um not whatever they want but I  dunno  to  sort
of respect them respect what other people want to do and let them um sort of let them be

it’s a bit like the freedom of speech thing freedom of speech is fantastic but with it comes responsibility as well

yeah

right yeah

and I think you know people have to take responsibility for themselves and their impact on other people  and  other  things
like the environment and stuff like that

Kerry:/Fiona: mmm

and  yeah

yeah

I value open-mindedness I really do

mm

it’s something  and I do value honesty people who are honest like at a deep level like even if they  don’t  always  kind
of l even if they do tell a white lie sometimes so long as they would tell the truth when they’re put on the spot

mm

um yeah

and about things that are important

important yeah

and I guess you know that’s my I’m putting my value judgements on what I think is important but

Kerry:/Fiona: mm yeah

I think also it’s important to have some empathy for other people which is part of the open-mindedness but it’s also um

it goes beyond that a bit doesn’t it

it really does yeah I think you’ve gotta see where other people are coming from and  understand  why
they’re different to you

yeah

um and understand what they need

I think just that general you know not living your life just to look after you

Kerry:/Fiona: mm

but really having a bit more of a social view of things you know

mm

yeah

um and being aware of people who live up in those lovely flats

yeah

mm

and stuff just you know

and not just living in your own little world 

 yeah and I I that is one thing I think Australians do tend to do a bit

mm

and if I could change one thing about Australia it would be to make us a bit more aware of everyone

yeah

rather than just ourselves

mm yeah mm well on that note you lovely people

http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/source/LaTrobeLisa#Text