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Heather & Marie (Raw)

Item metadata
Speaker:
participant,Heather,38 participant,Marie,25
Description :
Participants were informed that the researcher was looking at the general differences between French and Australian English speakers’ conversational styles, and were not given any further specific information. The researcher's own participation in the conversation was limited to asking questions on certain topics to initiate the conversation between the two speakers, and to adding comments from time to time. The participants were asked to talk to each other rather than to the researcher, although she was often included in the conversation. An attempt was made to ensure that the conversations were as similar as possible in terms of set-up, length and topics discussed, (although not all of the topics were covered in every conversation). To this end the researcher had prepared a list of topics on which to ask the participants for their opinion; these included such issues as life in Australia, the difference between French and Australian English speakers, multiculturalism, the role of honesty in a relationship, the importance of expressing one’s opinion, and the difference between tu and vous (the familiar and polite forms of you in French) for the French speakers.
ns1:ParticipantRelation
strangers
Participants :
Heather (female, 38, Australian, consultant/student, five months spent in France), Marie (female, 25, French, no current profession, fourteen months in Australia)
Audience :
Small Group
Communication Context :
Face to Face
Related Document :
Heather & Marie (Raw), Raw Heather & Marie (Original), Original Heather & Marie (Text), Text http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/source/LaTrobeHeather#Audio
Interactivity :
Dialogue
Word Count :
5844
Mode :
Spoken
Plaint Text :
http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/items/LaTrobeHeather#Text
ns1:Setting
Unfamiliar to both (a room at university)
ns1:lengthOfRecording
35 minutes 45 seconds
ns1:numberOfPeople
3
Creator
Kerry Mullan
Identifier
Heather & Marie
Title
Heather & Marie
Discourse Type :
Interactive Discourse
Recording Date :
30.05.2001
Document metadata
Extent:
5844
Identifier
Transcrp - Heather & Marie-raw.txt
Title
LaTrobeHeather#Raw
Type
Raw

Transcrp - Heather & Marie-raw.txt — 40 KB

File contents

Heather and Marie 30.05.01
(36.04 minutes)


Kerry:  Alright that seems to be working … okay so we’ll start off with something really easy .. what is  your  idea  of  a  good
person .. like what qualities do you think make up a good person?

Heather: Well tolerant

Kerry: uhuh

Marie: tolerant?

Heather: tolerant

Marie: okay

Heather: of different people race colour creed religion whatever .. is important .. sense of humour doesn’t  necessarily  make  a
good person but er I dunno

Marie: oh yeah I think sense of humour helps to be ah criticise with ourselves too I think it’s important to be able to  look  at
ourself change [and]

Heather:                             [to be ] aware =

Marie:                                     = yeah

Heather: mm

Marie: aware of … yeah a good person to me is that .. and then tolerance comes [I think]

Heather:                                                    [yeah] and considerate of others

Marie: mm

Heather: what’s .. yeah I dunno what else [@@@@@]

Marie:                              [being compassion] … compassionate? =

Heather:                                                  = compassionate =

Marie:                                                              =  yeah?

Heather: absolutely

Marie: understand..ing

Heather: mm

Marie: @@

Heather: mm

Marie: a good person mm

Kerry: Is there anything else?

Marie: dunno .. what would be a bad person? @@

Kerry: oh yeah and then take the opposite

Heather: mm true

Marie: er..

Heather: well intolerant @@@ erm what’s a bad person?

Marie: yeah well I I would say it’s about love ‘n and .. [and]

Heather:                                    [thinking] of other people

Marie:    [mm]

Heather: [not] just of yourself

Marie: mm

Heather: yeah

Marie: oh what was it? Oh I forgot … honesty mm

Heather: mm

Kerry: mm okay well this isn’t so much about being a good person but do you think that being emotional is a good quality?

Marie: ah you know I was going to talk about emotional yeah

Heather: yeah I agree too I think it is important

Marie: to express the feelings? [yeah] I think so

Heather:                    [mm] back to what you were saying about honesty

Marie: mm

Heather: in that sense of being honest with your feelings being honest with other people  about  how  you  feel  about  different
things

Marie: mm so we agree?

Heather: we are .. we .. totally in agreement here @@@

Marie: @@@

Kerry: okay so you obviously erm consider honesty as being really important in a relationship … do you think it’s more  important
to be honest or truthful than it is to be polite?

Marie: ah to me yes definitely

Heather: erm oh I don’t know .. it would depend I don’t

Marie: mm

Heather: think I could say absolutely in in well it would depend on the relationship who the person is how close they are  to  me
.. as to erm [a]

Marie: I I I was sure you would disagree with me I I wonder sometimes why people think we are arrogant and I  guess  one  of  the
things is p’raps that ah sometimes people can think I’m a bit pushy or arrogant because I don’t care about being polite

Heather: [mm]

Marie:    [I] think being sincere is a way of being polite

Heather: mm

Marie: I want people to be sincere with me I’ve never .. I’ve been raised in er cultural .. from my mum and my dad we’ve got  the
noble part that is very you know we learn the rules ner ner ner

Heather: yes

Marie: and my dad is .. well another story but it’s kind of the same thing erm being polite is very important and  I  just  [fuck
off ]

Heather:                  [you don’t] [yeah]

Marie:                       [sorry] but I .. because it’s like being false all the time and I

Heather: mm

Marie: I’ve been going through that and sometimes .. people don’t understand

Heather: mm

Marie: but it doesn’t matter to me

Heather: yeah well .. it would depend on the circumstances

Marie: yeah

Heather: with me because sometimes I think .. if by being polite I don’t .. I stop somebody being hurt

Marie: mm [yeah] @@

Heather:     [then] I will be polite rather than tell them what I really think

Marie: mm

Heather: because I think that  what I really think a) isn’t that important to them

Marie:    [yeah]

Heather: [it’s not] that important for them to know it

Marie: mm

Heather: particularly if I think it will hurt them? so I don’t think there’s anything to be gained so  sometimes  I  will  be  ..
well our version of “polite” =

Marie:                                                                           = polite yeah

Heather: because I think it might hurt someone

Marie: mm [tactful perhaps]

Heather:     [and  I  don’t  want  to  do  that]  yeah  ..  so   I   suppose   it   depends   how   you   define   being   polite
[really]

Marie:         [yeah]

Heather: in a way

Marie: oh yeah no I think you er.. what you say is true too but my way is different

Heather: [so you would]

Marie:        [and I do] hurt push people sometimes

Heather: [b..]

Marie: and I’m not afraid of being pushed as well so

Heather: mm .. [whereas probably]

Marie:           [you know]

Heather: yeah I wou .. I .. in that sense I would be different

Marie: mm

Heather: I think that is a cultural difference

Marie: yeah well I think it is a bit in the culture

Heather: mm

Marie: and I am a bit excessive in France as well but I’ve seen that yes it is different

Heather: mm =

Marie:           = in here you’ve got a lot .. yeah being emotional is .. you express emotion very differently than  the  way  we
do in France I’m not able to say how really

Heather: mm

Marie: I think I see that when I’ll be back [but]

Heather:                     [mm]

Marie: there is a big difference

Heather: mm

Marie: so yeah

Heather: in in in every ex.. in .. give an example I suppose

Marie: give an example? I don’t know right now mmm perhaps later on I’ve seen that we might talk about  it  so  perhaps  I’ll  be
able to yeah is it loud enough [the way we speak?]

Kerry:                                       [it should be] it should be

Heather: so I don’t have to yell? @@

Kerry: no is the red light still on?

Marie: red light?

Heather: ah yes yes

Kerry: just tell me if that goes off and then I’ll panic I won’t know what to do but just let me know anyway

Marie: but

Kerry: yeah I think that’s just with the noise level blah etc. … ok so you .. do  you  know  Marie  the  expression  “donner  une
réponse de Normand”?

Marie: er no but I think it might be like er a story that ends like a fish .. tail? End fish that means no? well

Kerry: dunno

Marie: ok well [you don’t know this]

Kerry:              [I don’t know ]

Marie: “finir en queue de poisson”

Kerry: [I don’t know that expression]

Marie: [that means it doesn’t finish] there’s no sense in the end of the story

Kerry: oh okay well apparently une réponse de Normand is “peut-être bien que oui, peut-être bien que non”

Marie: yeah [okay]

Kerry:              [so do] you know that?

Marie: yeah

Kerry: okay so could you explain that to Heather?

Heather: yeah @@

Marie: ah euh “peut-être bien que oui, peut-être bien que non” yeah that means that pf ev.. yeah well to me I’m gonna put  it  in
a concept perhaps it’s illogical I don’t know but to me it’s erm seeing that everything is true? you know the balance?  when  you
say something the contrary is true as well I mean in the whole world if we take the whole picture

Heather: mm

Marie: so “peut-être bien que oui, peut-être bien que non” means pf it’s up to you to make your own truth you know

Heather: about a situation or.. =

Marie:                           = yeah

Heather: [so]

Marie:    [yeah] like you ask me something and I tell you “peut-être bien que oui, peut-être bien que non” that means  well  it’s
up to you you take whatever you want because I give you both [or]

Heather:                                                           [mm] so when would you use it then?

Kerry: do you understand the words?

Heather: well yeah yes

Kerry: yeah okay

Heather: maybe

Marie: yes

Kerry: “maybe yes maybe not” yeah

Heather: mm

Marie: “could be yes could be no” I wouldn’t say “maybe yes maybe no” in English would you?

Kerry: what do we say?

Heather: I’m not too sure I get the sense of it yet so I don’t know what I’d say

Kerry: would we say .. no we’d say “maybe maybe not”

Heather: “maybe maybe not”

Marie: [ah okay ]

Kerry: [that’s] probably a more colloquial expression isn’t it in English yeah so .. yeah

Heather: so [you]

Kerry:        [so it’s] not giving a straight answer I suppose

Heather: and would [you use]

Marie:                     [yeah it’s]

Heather:                        it when you weren’t sure .. about something about  your it’s .. I sit  here  well  what  did  you
think about a certain situation and you really .. hadn’t .. come to a conclusion would you say “maybe maybe yes maybe no” or…

Marie: yeah well you have to ask me a question when I can answer yes or no well I have to answer yes  or  no  so  that  I  answer
“peut-être bien que oui, peut-être bien que non” =

Heather:                                              = ah

Marie: you are [expecting that I say] [yes or that I] say no

Heather:          [it’s like the a.. ]         [yes or the no]

Marie: have you liked er pf .. would you or an invitation it can be that .. you invite me somewhere and I say but well  it’s  not
[mm]

Heather:           [but] would it be more like =

Marie:                                  = dunno =

Heather:                                 = we’ve just met somebody

Marie: mm

Heather: and I say did you like X

Marie: yeah and I tell you peut-etre bien que ou.. it’s kind of a game as well if you ask me this question and I tell you  “peut-
être bien que oui, peut-être bien que non” that means you know I don’t wanna tell you and it’s kind of a game and you [you just]

Heather:                                [ah] [it’s like a hedging sort of thing]

Marie:                                  [or I don’t know] also … yeah “peut-être bien que oui, peut-être bien que  non”  I  don’t
know him enough to

Heather: to make an assessment =

Marie:                              = yeah

Heather: mm mm so you can use it in both situations? one when you know and you don’t want to tell somebody

Marie:    [yeah ]

Heather: [or ]

Marie:    [that would be a game to me] but

Heather: [when you actually don’t know] yeah

Marie: yeah [exactly]

Heather: or when you don’t actually.. you’re not sure about that point

Marie: mm

Heather: okay

Marie: and I leave it to you

Heather: so a non answer?

Kerry: a non answer yeah that’s a good way of putting it so would you think the expression “to sit on the fence” means  the  same
thing? Can you explain that to Marie? [Or do you know that expression?]

Heather:                                       [?????????????????]

Marie:                                               [that depends, is a fence une barriere?

Kerry: mm

Marie: okay “to sit to set”?

Kerry: sit

Heather: sit

Marie: sit oh yeah hurts

Heather: yeah that’s what I think

Kerry: do you know the expression [“to sit on the fence”?]

Heather:                      [“to sit on the fence”] it’s to not .. well it’s to not commit .. to to an an  opinion  either  way
.. so

Marie: okay

Heather: yeah sitting on the fence meaning they’re trying .. they’re not telling you what they  think  about  it  I  suppose  you
could use it in that .. in that sense .. or they’re trying to have it both ways is the other way that we tend to use it

Marie: mm [mm]

Heather:      [in] .. in the sense that um (2.0) you you wanna know how somebody feels about a  certain  situation  for  whatever
re.. like there’s a group of people and you wanna make a decision and you need say a majority of those people to ma..  to  ..  to
so that something will happen and one person is not committing either way they’re sitting on the fence

Marie: [yeah okay]

Heather:       [they’re not] telling you what .. you know they’re not saying  yes  they’re  not  saying  no  they’re  not  saying
anything really .. well that’s how I see it

Kerry: yet is it negatively valued evaluated [in Australian]

Heather:                          [mm can be]

Kerry: culture?

Heather: can be .. can be I think erm =

Marie:                                     = ahuh

Heather: because .. well not strongly

Kerry:     [yeah]

Heather:  [but] .. no no I suppose yeah you you might be able to say “this is what I believe and let’s move  on”  let’s  not  you
know shilly shally along let’s let’s make a decision .. but maybe that’s just reflective of how I think so …

Kerry: no you’re representing Australia [here Heather]

Heather:                     [ah sorry] @@@@@

Marie: and just a way to sat on the fence ???? (I believe?) has to be negative I mean it hurts

Heather: it could be very uncomfortable @@@@@ [?????]

Marie:                                                [?????] yeah I’m sitting on the fence oh ow

Kerry: it’s a strange expression isn’t it ‘cos it’s really not visual it doesn’t represent anything like if you  think  about  it
visually I don’t see the connection with [sitting]

Heather:                                   [????]

Kerry:      on the fence and not giving a an opinion

Marie: yeah yeah

Kerry: it’s kind of a .. it’s a strange logic where the expression [came from]

Heather:                                          [that’s very true] yes

Marie: ah perhaps yeah sitting like [you ????? like that] and you’re

Heather:                    [or going either way]

Kerry:                                           [ah okay]

Heather:                     [????????] I think you’re right [I think that would be more it actually ‘cos you could go that way]

Kerry:/Marie:                                               [ ?????????????????]

Heather:                                                           or you could go that way you’re actually  in  a  position  you
could go either side

Kerry: that’s true

Heather: that’s it that’s

Kerry: yeah

Marie: and the balance is hard to keep in between [the two]

Heather:                             [yes]

Kerry: yeah mm

Heather: yeah I think you’re right definitely

Kerry: thank you for explaining that

All: @@@@

Heather: think this will help your study? @@@

Kerry: it will @@@@ I’ve always wondered what that meant .. okay well keeping on the same theme theme  then  do  you  think  it’s
al.. it’s important to always have an opinion a) to have one and b) to give one

Marie: ah to me not I guess I’ve changed a lot I’ve learnt a lot I I had I’ve already had an opinion but now and  even  sometimes
talk is an useless

Heather: yeah erm I’m not sure @@@@ [????]

Kerry:                              [Now Heather] that’s not much of an opinion

Heather: ????? is it?

Kerry: you’re being facetious

Heather: I am erm I don.. I really don’t know how I think about that whether it’s it’s … sometim.. it depends on the situation  I
know I’m sort of always saying that but .. in certain situations .. I would want people to have an opinion I think  it  would  be
important erm but it it would depend on the importance of the subject if it’s really irrelev.. well to  me  irrelevant  then  I’m
not really fussed about having an opinion either way so to me I s’pose it depends how important I think [the subject is]

Marie:                                                               [mm the subject is]

Heather: so …

Marie:      but like if I ask you this question er “do you think Hitler er do you think it’s good that what happened with  Hitler
happened?” well I guess I’ve got an opinion [I]

Heather:                                       [I]

Marie: would say “yes”

Heather: I have an opinion

Marie: yeah what’s your opinion?

Heather: oh because I think it’s important what he did was was sorry ask me again the [question]

Marie:                                                                [if you] if you could have prevented from  happening  would
you?

Heather: oh God yes

Marie: yeah well I think no okay so I’ve got an opinion [def]initely I’ve got one

Heather:                                          [yeah]            so but I think that’s an important issue

Kerry: is it safe

Heather: so I think it’s important that I’d I would have an opinion on that

Marie: you yeah but me

Heather: ah [yes yes yes yes]

Marie:             [saying that]it’s not important to have an opinion but then I’m just thinking this is an important  issue  and
I’ve got an opinion

Heather: [mm]

Marie:     [be]cause you’ve got one and I’m thinking (1.5) I disagree with you so .. I’ve got an opinion

Heather: mm mm

Marie: and I thought I would be able not to  have  an  opinion  because  definitely  what  happened  is  terrible  but  then  the
consequences are good so .. you know I just .. yeah

Heather: okay

Marie: ah that’s a ??? I don’t know that’s a question .. we are we I think we are all able to have an opinion each  time  we  can
make a choice it’s a question about making choices but I definitely think it’s not that important to make  the  choice  sometimes
and have an opinion about something because .. yeah

Kerry: okay so could you just tell me about your opinion about Hitler just describe [just]

Marie:                                                          [erm] I think it had to happen what happened  had  to  happen  so
that now when I see in Europe what we’re doing about the whole process of peace we wanna keep peace whatever happen all  together
sta.. s.. starting to build something that tsk with all the ideals that we’ve got .. erm it’s very .. you  know  we..  we’re  big
thinking people in France specially and we had big lesson em I’ve I’ve heard from what happened in Switzerland every  year  there
is a devil(?) meeting with [other people]

Heather:                                [mm mm]

Marie:                                                    and from politics and money capitalist those who  rule  the  world  who
talk and they have this big erm talk about the 2000 the th..ird mill.. millennium coming and only  Europe  they  representing  ..
every continent was saying about we’re gonna be the more powerful the most powerful blah blah blah blah and only Europe stand  up
the last one and said that no we all work together we live in the same world and we want peace we want  happiness  for  everybody
so we trying to .. and only Europe said that and er after something happened Indian an Indian guy just very  violently  told  him
you’re afraid of the war because you had two big war but we are not afraid and we’re gonna  do  whatever  well  I’ve  heard  that
because someone I know people who’s been there

Heather: mm

Marie: and that’s yeah that’s just an example for me that is very ???? that means we’ve been li.. living such horrible things

Heather: mm

Marie: but now I’m in Australia it’s kind of the same but you’re so apart that you don’t really care you’ve got such a  beautiful
little paradise @@ but yeah .. so but Hitler I mean it’s lot more complicated than that but

Heather: mm yeah yeah I dunno it’s interesting because .. I mean the other thing about what happened with  Hitler  and  th..  the
genocide with the Jews that’s been publicised because it was Europe and the powerful and media but  then  what  happened  in  you
know Indonesia in .. there’s genocide that’s happening there what happened in Africa wha.. i.. it’s not getting the publicity =

Marie:                                                            = I think =

Heather:                                                          = is anybody learning from that is it ever a good thing =

Marie:                            = [yeah]

Heather:                        [I mean] I dunno [I’m not too sure that I completely]

Marie:                                                           [what you said about the media] and stuff I understand what  you
say but I think something is different in Hitler’s story in that he’s been planning to rule over the whole  world  and  you  know
he’s a .. it’s like it’s like the devil working with erm .. success eating [more and more] you know like

Heather:                    [mm mm]

Marie:                                         with big big plan in his head like no we.. y.. d’y you..  you  know  what  I  mean
very very

Heather:                         [well in in]

Marie:                                  [very dark] very it’s like everybody agree y.. you know like what he’s he’s done all  the
people who follow him

Heather: [mm]

Marie:     [and] erm this this spider stuff going more and more and no-one I dunno

Heather: and no-one stops [it]

Marie:                     [what’s] happening in the others countries it’s like it’s more passion and you know  fighting  culture
fighting and people doing not this big plan and this big book actually there is a book =

Heather: = so you think the fact that it was more

Marie: [it’s like]

Heather: [er.. the] planning aspect is is something [that differentiates]

Marie:                                    [it’s like sigh]

Heather:                                          it from the other genocides that  have  occurred  in  the  world  the  planning
aspect [is that the thing that’s different]

Marie:                                       [?? I dunno what I want to] say exactly I’ve never the right arguments  in  my  head
that’s just a feeling and the big s.. picture

Heather: mm

Marie: I’ve never [I]

Heather:        [yeah ] I mean I don’t I don’t have I haven’t thought about it in in that context but              =

Marie: = it’s like you know he wrote the bible about what he was thinking why he was [doing that]

Heather:                                                       [Mien Kampf] or something]

Marie: yeah Mein [Kampf ]

Heather:       [yeah] Mein Kampf [mm]

Marie:                                  [and] ..

Heather: mm

Marie: we.. yeah with rational you know with the [rational mind]

Heather:                            [cold blooded]

Marie: yeah cold blood and yeah

Heather: yeah it was deliberate it was planned it wasn’t full of emotion

Marie: mm

Heather: yeah but I don’t know is it true I mean yes i.. the way it was actually executed in  that  in  that  sense  the  way  it
actually happened but but why did he hate the Jews so much .. that to me is [an emotional response]

Marie:                                                                [oh he hated… ???????]

Heather: [so so ??] mm

Marie: but it’s so clear but still you know what I mean girl’s problem(?) yeah and everybody followed

Heather: mm yeah it’s scary to see what can happen in a in a community

Marie: mm

Heather: that though so many of the Germans I understand didn’t a) didn’t know the full extent of what  was  going  on  and  were
scared and didn’t want to I mean they were like u.. us and it could happen and we could react that same way that’s the scary  bit
I think

Marie: well I would say that ??? happens

Heather: [so?]

Marie:    [it’s] not that sure that we could do the thing because it has happened that’s why it’s good @@ ??

Heather: @@@ yeah =

Marie:                         = we’ve got the lesson we’ve got the knowledge if [we want]

Heather:                                                          [the history]

Marie: we’ve got everything =

Heather:                 = ??

Marie: just here to to have a look and what what do we wanna do you know

Heather: yeah =

Marie:             = do we wanna be

Heather: [so it won’t happen again]

Marie:    [??????????] inside

Heather: I hope you’re right

Marie: ah yeah

Heather: I hope you’re right

Marie: yeah I hope I’m right

Kerry: okay we’ll change the subject what do you think the biggest differences are between France and Australia?

Marie: Have you been in France?

Heather: Oh me?

Kerry: anybody

Heather: the biggest differences … I think the food overall is better in France @@

Kerry: ??? the food

Heather: I love the food

Marie: oh yeah everybody ??? the food is

Heather: the food oh I I love it I love the countryside I think it’s really pretty I love the fact that and this is all visual  I
suppose erm you go into the villages and everyone’s got like flowers  everywhere  and  they  really  try  and  make  it  visually
attractive

Marie: mmm

Heather: and I love that part

Marie: that’s good

Heather: I think the bread’s excellent

Marie: the what?

Heather: bread … cheese um

Marie: @@

Kerry: wine

Heather: I think it’s attractive I think the the I like I love Paris I think that’s a fascinating  place  so  yeah  mm  but  that
wasn’t what what you were saying to me was it?

Kerry: just what the biggest differences are =

Heather:                           = differences =

Kerry:                                          = I mean anything you don’t like anything that  you  miss  about  Australia  when
you’re in France and anything you miss about France when you’re in Australia things

Marie: right

Heather: well you’d prob..  be able to answer a bit more ‘cos you’re sort of living here but the thing that  strikes  me  is  the
bureaucracy level of bureaucracy in France is hu.. amazing it’s just [everything takes so much longer to do and]

Marie:                                                                [oh …. that is terrible]

Heather: yeah er [and that’s]

Marie:             [has to be puch pulled down]

Heather: yeah that strikes me um .. now what else? Oh may.. maybe you talk here for a bit got more to add

Marie: yeah [I have]

Heather:       [having] lived here =

Marie:                       = yeah I think the bureaucracy is one of the .. well to me there is a a concept you’re more  in  the
being in the now in the how .. you know and we are more living in the past and future thinking talking  a  lot  analysing  a  lot
rationalising science all that i.. the ideals having big ideals about the world about everything [???]

Heather:                           [but I like that bit but that is different]

Marie:                                  [everything sex we talk about sex] - doesn’t give up turn

Heather: yeah

Marie: everything

Heather: yeah

Marie: it’s [true]

Heather:    [it’s true] it is different and I really like that

Marie: yeah but on on the other side we have [stress]

Heather:                              [????]

Marie: we don’t know how to =

Heather:                   = [relax yeah]

Marie:                        [appreciate] yeah relax appreciate the being now

Heather: mm

Marie: as in here it is very very good with that but in here most of the people just don’t care [about]

Heather:                                                            [mm]

Marie: [???? thinking and .. the world and all that]

Heather:[????? yeah that’s when it goes too far yeah] I agree

Marie: and so I’ve always known since I’ve been first came in here that it’s a very good  balance  France  and  Australia  to  to
become complete and very powerful if the two country would work together but the government don’t want and I wonder  why  @@  and
it’s very yeah

Heather: mm

Marie: and here I’ve been learning a lot and I feel very much centred and complete with  myself  now  and  that’s  very  good  ..
spirituality as well here is something we can learn as in France it’s craziness or sect

Heather: mm =

Marie:               = you know we’ve got this big thinking head machine bureaucracy one way of thinking

Heather: mm

Marie: ah coming from the philosophe all that all this heavy culture like that

Heather: mm =

Marie:               = it’s changing

Heather:  mm that’s good so

Marie: yeah being in the being ?? and er thinking we’re free mind.. we are  very  free  minded  in  France  we’ve  got  different
newspaper talking about every subject having the contrary you know we can make our own thinking and I wouldn’t say that  in  here
if you look at the news on TV I don’t like them in France but when I look at them in here oh my God or the  ad  or  whatever  but
here you’ve got the freedom to be creating we don’t have it in France and there’s

Heather: mm

Marie: so many people who become crazy because we are just stuck in a [way of]

Heather:                                           [yeah]

Marie: thinking just life reality

Heather: yeah

Marie: as in here there’s so many crazy people in the street they would be locked in France that is terrible

Heather: mm [mm]

Marie:           [this is] terrible yeah you’ve got freedom to to dress in France you’ll be original everybody will look look  at
you and think you’re different and oh

Heather: so mm =

Marie:           = to me that’s the biggest difference

Kerry: so what would you think the main differences between the people are the French people and the Australians?

Marie: the people?

Kerry: mm

Marie: what are …

Kerry: ch.. characteristics I guess that you’ve noticed that are quite different between the two

Marie: I think this [???] I dunno the way more formal? [Which one?]                [more formal]

Heather:                 [not sure]                          [I think the French] are [more formal]

Marie: in what way?

Heather: ah well on a very superficial level because I don’t know that many French people

Marie: mm

Heather: but very formal in terms of they how they address you they’re a sort of .. this is the way  you  you  always  say  ‘good
morning’ you always say you know walking down the street if well in the village where I’ve been it’s I I I quite  like  the  fact
that everyone always says ‘hello’ to you I think that’s very [friendly] but it’s very formal

Marie:        [???]                okay

Heather: so =

Marie:             = yeah that’s probably what I’ve been fighting against @@ yeah perhaps you’re right I don’t know

Heather: yeah

Marie: you will show all this stuff ah ‘cos I’ve seen the difference in the way we talk we we use .. we tend to raise  our  voice
express our emotions through the way we talk

Heather: [mm]

Marie:    [not] in here and it’s so laid back you know an.. and I’ve seen my French friend Steve  talking  suddenly  becoming  so
French she being a bit aggressive because she was defending her point of view and Vicky Australian feeling  that  like  that  and
just keeping her natural you know

Heather: [yeah]

Marie:     [not] being annoyed at all like the way Steve I would have get nervous and angry in France we like  to  and  we  don’t
we’re not afraid of conflict as well

Heather: mm

Marie: the fighting with the

Heather: [yeah]

Marie:    [???] in here you don’t do that

Heather: I suppose [not but I do]      [???]

Marie:                 [people talk ??] [???]

Heather: but yeah

Marie: seem that ah the information when when someone is criticised it’s by the others when these people is  not  here  everybody
knows that when the group is talking with a just one it’s talking about this person and then sometimes playing the  ??  until  it
comes back

Heather: yeah

Marie: and it’s like that with everybody that’s very different

Heather: mm     [yeah but]

Marie: but yeah [I would] say you’re more formal in another way I don’t know what would

Heather: if they’re Australians?

Marie: yeah

Heather: yeah? [I I can’t see it .. so]

Marie:               [no no I understand] what you mean now no yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely

Heather: mm yeah

Marie: yes =

Heather:    = but it’s not bad it’s just different … it’s um yeah but I I I ???? because I  actually  don’t  know  that  many  ..
French people well

Marie: mm

Heather: you know I chat to them but .. but I don’t know them no

Marie: how long have you been staying in France?

Heather: um .. I’ve been a few times for a month

Marie: okay

Heather: here a month there =

Marie:                        = travelling or yeah or [really] staying in a place?

Heather:                               [um]                       both =

Marie:                                                           = both

Heather: staying in a place and then and then travelling so .. [yeah]

Marie:                                              [mm]

Heather: but it’s .. yeah we haven’t met too .. too many well until this year I didn’t speak French at all  well  so  ..  it  was
really um .. it was very difficult anyway

Marie:     [?????]

Heather:  [unless] .. very difficult unless they spoke English

Marie: yeah

Heather: I couldn’t communicate =

Marie:                         = mm

Heather: so it makes a difference .. mm yeah next one =

Kerry:                                            = okay well talking of French tu and vous who do you use tu with this  is  more
for you and when do you move from vous to tu er yeah answer that first I’ll give you part two in a minute

Marie: erm that’s interesting like erm vous (sic) I use to people of my age definitely that’s very easy =

Kerry:                                                                    = as soon as you meet them?

Marie: yeah

Kerry: would you have said tu to me [to both of us] straight away today =

Marie:                               [yeah oh yeah]                     = yeah I would have said tu to both of  you  erm  when  I
feel comfortable but when there is there is something erm like in my family er well we’ve been raised to say  vous  to  my  uncle
and aunty from my dad’s side but in my mum’s side there is only one uncle and aunty that to whom I say vous because I  feel  very
because they’ve got you know the formal stuff more than the others and when I feel comfortable and so it is very  hard  sometimes
like I’ve met teachers at uni who are very close to the student and ask that we say tu and if we say vous they say  vous  and  it
has been very difficult for me to be able to say tu to a teacher older

Heather: [mm]

Marie:     [and] teacher specially older teacher [together]

Heather:                               [mm]

Marie: I just couldn’t do it it took me a very long time to say tu very very hard so it’s  a  bit  like  it’s  um  yeah  the  the
teacher yeah because in France at school it’s very different we are like sheep and we are asked just to listen to put it  in  our
head and to rewrite it when it’s time to rewrite it everything that we’ve put in our head oh my God .. as  in  here  you  ask  ..
they’re at school I’ve been in school it is a girl’s school (???)  erm to participate it’s more exchanging  opinions  stuff  like
that and it would be a lot easier to say tu to the teacher in that way .. but in France no it’s teacher (there) students baaa  @@
ah ay ay

Kerry: so do you feel comfortable using tu and vous in French do [you think you’ve] handled it?

Heather:                                      [oh God no]                 .. no have no idea .. no idea @@ I think  it’s  one  ..
the .. I would actually say it’s funny you should bring this up .. had a class yesterday right French erm  linguistics  and  this
guy gave a talk on tu and vous and like he had a little chart on who says t.. you know situations etc. and I said  to  the  bloke
beside me “It’s the one thing I wish they didn’t have” because it’s the one thing that I can just never understand .. I just  and
ye.. and who the [thing is like alright]

Marie:                                                                             [????? I don’t know]

Heather: we start with vous and like .. but then who who’s the one makes the decision to say well we’re gonna  use  tu  now     I
mean if someone’d just say to me “can we use tu?” I’d be “yes okay that’s fine” yeah but left to my own devices  I’d  just  wanna
go you know let’s keep going vous ‘cos I have no idea what to do next

Marie: okay [so if I tell] you someone older there are rules someone older you say [vous]

Heather:       [so it’s just like]                                          [vous]

Marie:  and erm well I think that’s the most important rule [perhaps]

Heather:                                   [so it]      that’s that’s the only thing if they’re older it’s vous?  [And  do]  they
ever make a decision to say [I wanna use tu]?

Marie:                 [yeah]                              [and ?????? between] them use vous when  you  don’t  know  the  people
actually you’re supposed to say [vous] the young say tu

Heather:                                              [vous]                  right

Marie: and @@ [yeah]

Heather:     [but what] but what happens okay if someone starts with vous they address y.. I s.. they address you as vous at  any
time can you say “No address me as su as tu”?

Marie: yeah if you are in the higher [position you can say]

Heather:                     [so like if you’re older]

Marie: yeah or the teacher o:r sometimes young people tell me vous Magrebian people er the girl because they’ve  learned  perhaps
lots of respect

Heather: mm

Marie: and er sometimes yeah they telling me vous and I say “No I I tell you tu to you so tell me tu

Heather: [mm]

Marie:    [it’s] like there is you know yeah it’s very interesting I I think like as a question =

Heather:                                                      = it’s a minefield

Kerry: it is it’s very [dangerous]

Heather:           [I don’t think] it’s a mi.. ‘cos in English we just don’t have those decisions =

Marie:                                                                         = no it’s like the feminie and the masculine  like
you haven’t got the difference for you it’s just [the ????]

Heather:                                                             [??? yeah but I don’t have that much}

Marie: so it yeah no it’s not a problem but [I] I think we we make more different yeah it’s so =

Heather:                         [mm]                                     = yeah                 [but that’s easy .. that]

Marie:   [???? as] you’ve just got the big [????]      doesn’t matter

Heather:                     [yeah true]             true tha. a.. er.. well my [???? is it’s the pronun]

Marie:                                                                      [people think it’s (????)]

Heather: ciation that’s the trouble with English that’s the main difficulty

Marie: in English?

Heather: the pronunciation ‘cos it’s just the spelling doesn’t accord very well with the pronunciation there’s not [yeah]

Marie: oh? [I don’t] know

Heather: well like in in Spanish there’s a set number of vowels and sounds and the way it’s spelt  [it]  will  always  sound  the
same way

Marie:                                                                       [okay]

Heather: you don’t have that in English and to a certain extent you don’t have it in French either  but  it’s  worse  in  English
isn’t it (asks me) that’s my understanding ????? linguist here so (??)

Kerry: okay well I’ll just make this the last question ‘cos I know you have to go [Heather ]

Heather:                                                 [yeah]

Kerry: erm so do you find it easier then to just use you in English or do you  feel  restricted  by  the  just  having  one  form
because you can’t play with that distance or it doesn’t bother you you’re just happy with one form?

Marie: yeah it doesn’t bother me I haven’t been really thinking of that I see that perhaps in France when I’ll be back

Kerry: mm

Marie: it just it annoy me the tu and vous with this teacher and one aunty that we became closer like that and then she wants  me
to say tu and that is now shit that is interesting that is good because then we show that we’ve become closer and in the eyes  of
the other if I say tu to her in front of everybody that means we show we’ve got a special relationship together so yeah

Heather: so [that’s a good thing?]

Kerry:             [but you can’t do] that in English?

Marie: no (to me) yeah that’s a good thing i.. it can be yeah i.. it’s a good thing yeah [in]

Heather:                                                       [mm]

Marie: that way it is with the teacher it was a bit different so it can be bad it can be good

Heather / Kerry: mm

Marie: because I perhaps I didn’t want to have this close relationship with the teacher

Heather: mm

Marie: I don’t know

Kerry: mm I know that one of my French speakers who .. I’ll just turn this off .. said that erm


http://ns.ausnc.org.au/corpora/latrobe/source/LaTrobeHeather#Raw