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Braided Channels of History Recording & Transcript - 60 (Raw)

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Trish Kristina Plant
IN 00:00:00 OUT 00:33:13
Trish FitzSimons
Kristina Schrader
Griffith Film School
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25 June 2000
Timecode refers to tape 60_BC_SP Topics in Bold
Braided Channels of History Recording & Transcript - 60
Pastoral Companies Childhood
Has less image noise than some of the previous tapes. Some cuts during interview.
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Kristina Plant
Interview with Kristina Plant. Part 1 of 2
part of:
Braided Channels of History Recording & Transcript - 60
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60_BC_SP_PLANT-raw.txt — 33 KB

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                                      25 June 2000
                         Timecode refers to tape 60_BC_SP
                                  Topics in Bold
                         TF = Trish       KP = Kristina Plant

     OK, so this is DAT tape 21, camera tape 60. It’s the 25th? Today, I think
     it’s the 25th June 2000 and Trish FitzSimons on sound, Julie Hornsey on
     camera. Channels of History project, and we’re interviewing Kristina
     Plant and we’re at the Showgrounds of Chinchilla.          60_BC_SP

     OK, you ready to rip?

JH   ….. ….. Yep.

TF   So Kristina, tell me where and when you were born and what your name was
     as a small child.

KD   Childhood
     12:01:11:00    I was um born at Charleville and when I were two my folks
     moved out to Bedourie where Dad start managing the Kidman place. Um, me
     and my brother and my younger sister, we grew up there and um

TF   I’ll just pau – so what was your name as you were –

KD   12:01:37:10    Kristina Schrader was my um maiden name.

TF   And were you born in Charleville because that’s where your Mum had gone
     just to have the baby?

KD   Yep.

TF   Or were your parents living in Charleville then?
KD   12:01:49:18    No. Mum just went to Charleville to have me there and um
     then went back to Windorah and then two years later they got offered this job
     out at Sandringham near Bedourie.

TF   And so what was your Dad’s um background? Like where had your Dad
     grown up?

KD   12:02:06:18    Dad’d um come from Kyogle down New South Wales and he
     left home at the age of 13 and worked on the Kidman place just out of
     Windorah called Morney and he’d been there ever since. Oh he worked there
     and then um met Mum and all that sort of stuff and then when I was 2 I would
     be, worked there and then Dad um went and worked for this other fellow for a
     couple of years and then they went out to Bedourie. Got offered the head
     stock ah manager’s job out at Bedourie.

TF   So how old do you reckon you were when you went to Bedourie?

KP   Two.

TF   Two.

KP   Yeah.

TF   And what do you reckon are your earliest memories?

KP   12:02:47:20    Um at Bedourie. Out at Sandringham and that like mucking
     around with the dogs and the horses and with my brother and sister. Yeah. It
     was, it was a good childhood. I enjoyed it.

TF   Tell me like, go back to say when you were 4 or 5. Paint a picture of your
     Mother’s day for me.
KP    Um would get up and she’d, if one of us kids were up, she’d have to take us
      down the kitchen and occupy us and then do breakfast for the men and she
      would serve in the kitchen cooking for the men because there were so many.

TF    Mmm.

KP    12:03:24:04    Us kids well, there was just my brother and I for a while then
      my sister came when I was 4 so the two she could manage alright but with the
      extra one, the older ones used to run away and hide and all that sort of stuff.

TF    Is that ‘cos your Mum would be so busy looking after the –

KP    Mmm.

TF    How many men would she have been cooking for?

KP    12:03:45:10    She got up to 15 there. That was sort of from 12 to 15 a lot of
      time in those days. Like there’s not that many there now but that’s how it
      used to be and with Mum being busy cooking and that, she just had a bit of
      trouble keeping up to us kids because we were always on the go and that so.

TF    So what did that mean for you kids?           Did it mean you became quite

KP    Mmm.

TF    Like what would you be doing while your Mum was busy cooking?

KP    12:04:11:02    We’d be outside playing with the toys or we’d helping Dad
      feeding the horses or feeding the dogs or taking the dogs for a walk to
      entertain ourselves and we used to have a sand hill. Oh well there still is a
      sand hill at the back of the station which is a ‘k’ and a half and we’d take the
      dogs for a walk up there so they’d let about 10 dogs off and off we’d go and
     we’d have to have a stock whip so the dogs wouldn’t chase after Mum’s pet
     pigs because we got into a lot of trouble and that was a no-no.

TF   You Mum was pretty keen on her pigs?

KP   Yeah. She liked her pigs. Mmm.

TF   And how about, did your Mum, when she wasn’t cooking or looking after you
     kids, did she work outside on the property or was she always home-based?

KP   12:04:53:02    Mum was always home-based. She’s um when they, we had a
     gardener who was a camp cook and when he went out on the camp, Mum’d
     have to do all the gardening and that and feeding the chooks and the pigs and
     the horses and everything and doing fire wood and all that for the old stove
     ….. yeah.

TF   So from what kind of age do you reckon, well, were you involved, growing
     up, were you involved in the work of the property at all or were you?

KP   Childhood
     12:05:21:18    Yeah. We used to always go out um before I started school like
     I used to be out trotting along behind Dad and like there’s a couple of people
     who used to say they, all they could remember was two little kids bobbing
     along behind Dad and they were chasing the cows and being asleep on the
     horses riding along and that an um then when school started, like Mum had a
     battle keeping us in the school. We just always had to go out and help Dad.
     Like that was it. Dad was our role model I guess you’d say. Mmm.

TF   And did either your Dad or your, or the company ever pay you for the work
     you did on the place?

KP   Childhood/Women/Work
     12:05:58:12    When I turned about 12, they put me on the payroll when I, for
     the work I did on the holidays and that and around the place.           Because
     whenever they got cattle into the yards and like come 3 o’clock when we’d be
     out and gone and down the yards and helping and that. About 12 they put me
     on the payroll. Yeah. Then I thought it was really good because I was getting
     paid for doing something I loved.

TF   Do you remember what your first pay cheque was? Like I remember my first
     pay cheque was $2.00 a day.

KP   12:06:28:23       Yeah, no I can’t say I remember because we just like got put on
     the books and you’d just, whenever you wanted money Dad’d give you a
     cheque and that so, yeah, I can’t remember that far back.

TF   So when did you first go to a city Kristina? Do you remember? Your first
     view of a city.

KP   Um in, to Brisbane was the first time. It was in ’88, when I went down the
     school camp with Bedourie and that was a bit of a highlight but – it’s fun but
     it’s a bit scary too.

TF   What did you make of Brisbane? Like, what did you like about it and what
     scared you about it?

KP   12:07:02:02       I can’t say I liked a whole lot about it. There’s too many
     people and the lights are good. Like at night it looked real pretty and that but
     um it was too scary for me. There was too many people and they were
     different from what I was used to so. I guess equivalent to about 20 people on
     the station you could say it was scary.

TF   And was there anything as a child that you weren’t allowed to or weren’t
     encouraged to do as a girl? You know, is there any obvious differences?

KP   12:07:38:00       No. No, Dad was really good. He sort of I guess um my sister
     and I were tomboys. We went out and did everything that the boys, that my
     brother did and we were allowed to do everything. We weren’t – say oh no,
         you’re a girl. Probably lifting heavy things is the only thing we were allowed
         to say oh we can’t do because other than that we just did everything.

TF       So it’s interesting looking at your Grandmother, Sylvia Geiger, and meeting
         your Aunt, Gladys Cross. It looks like they were women that were right into
         outside stuff as well.     Do you think your Mum would have, given the
         opportunity? Or was she somebody that was, was and is happier to be kind of
         inside focussed?

KP       12:08:19:10     Oh no. Mum doesn’t mind going outside. It just turned out
         that when Mum, I can’t remember how old she was, about 16 or something,
         she went working and got a cooking job and at that age that’s what she did so
         she’s just been the cook ever since, as in putting it in a nice way.

TF       And it’s a huge role isn’t it?

KP       12:08:40:06     Mmm. It’s a full-time job cooking. Like for 15 people there’s
         a lot to do and one thing Mum, she does cook a fair bit of food for you so you
         never go low on food.

TF       Were there any Aboriginal men or women on the station when you arrived

KP       Race Relations
         12:08:57:18     Mmm. There was an old dark camp cook that was there and
         like he was really good. He looked after us kids when Mum was busy and
         we’d be outside and he always seemed to be poking around the corner to see if
         we were alright and they’re helping us and I’d go out on a camp with Dad and
         if I got a sore bum and didn’t have to ride, I’d hop in the car with old Hoddie
         who was the cook and we’d go up and he’d start cooking and I’d be his little
         offsider. He um Dad and ….. offsider a fair bit when I was a kid. They –

TF       How about, were there any Aboriginal women on the station or just the?
KP   No. Just, just our camp cook was all we had, yeah.

TF   And would Hoddie be connected to an Aboriginal community in town
     somewhere or was he?

KP   He was more Mt Isa. He was connected at Mt Isa, yeah. No, he was good

TF   How about in Bedourie? Were there many Murris in Bedourie when, was
     Bedourie was like town for you?

KP   Race Relations
     12:09:51:10    Yep. Yeah, sure was. It was, there was a lot of dark – we
     mingled with dark kids. There was only about 4 white kids out of 15 in
     Bedourie when we went in there and there was no such thing as he’s white and
     you’re dark or anything.      It sort of, we all were one.     There was no
     discrimination or anything. It was great. And we’re still really good mates
     with ‘em now so.

TF   And so what happened when it was time for you to go to school? How, how
     did school happen for you?

KP   The high school?

TF   Well, you did mention School of the Air but I want you just to tell me just a
     tiny bit more about primary school, yeah.

KP   12:10:27:12    Ah we um did school there at home and we got governesses out
     and that and they got a bit of a shock, from Brisbane to out home and that. It
     was a bit of culture shock but no, it was good. We enjoyed School of the Air
     and getting on and talking to other kids and that and it was sort of the only
     way we really communicated with other kids away so it was pretty exciting.
     Big competition on who could call in the fastest and the earliest and all that
     but no, it was really good.
TF   Do you ever remember feeling lonely as a kid?

KP   12:10:57:14     Oh I never got that way. I guess um I was always sort of a
     loner so if I ever had a barney with my brother or sister, I’d just go and let a
     couple of dogs off and go up the hill and play with them. Like I never
     experienced that and a lot of people have asked me that but um I was always
     sort of a bit of a loner anyway. I’d just walk off or go for a ride on my horse
     and that was good enough for me but later on I sort of craved for a friend but
     um not in primary school. No, I had too much fun.

TF   And you described kind of the sand hill being important. Was the actual land
     and the way the land looked and fishing, was that sort of stuff an important
     part of? Like how would you have described your feeling for the land as a

KP   Oh I loved it. I thought it was great, like um it was home. I think that’s the
     only way I can really describe it. It was home, yeah.

TF   Yeah it’s interesting your parents being managers because I know in some of
     the pastoral companies, the managers always get moved round um –

KP   Yeah.

TF   A lot. Do you think that your experience of that land and your feeling for it
     would have changed at all had your parents owned it? Do you know what I’m
     saying, like?

KP   Women/Land
     12:12:12:08     Yeah. I – I used to think about that a bit, about oh if we owned
     it, how would I feel, but then it sort of felt like we owned it anyway. Like we
     called it our home, say it was ours and we never went into detail but, whether
     if we owned it or not if it’d be different because in our minds we did own it.
     Like it was ours. And those were just people who come and see it and that but

TF   So your parents are still there now?

KP   Yep. Yep. They’ve been there 21 years January just gone.

TF   And how would the kind of the Kidman Company, as a child, where, where
     and when would you be aware of, of the owners.

KP   12:12:52:08    Oh I guess when I had to help Mum do the boss’s table up.
     That brought me aware to it and I would’ve been about, I dunno, 10 or 11,
     when I was in helping and it sort of, then it was really brought to your
     attention that you couldn’t go and do that because you had to go and see the
     boss and that so.

TF   So just describe that. Like what would happen when the Kidman bosses
     would come to visit?

KP   12:13:15:22    They’d um come in an aeroplane and they always sat at a
     different table as to the workmen and us and um they’d come in for smoko and
     that and they’d say hello to us and were polite. Weren’t snobby or anything
     towards us. And um go out and have their meal and have a bit of chat to us
     and then go off and Dad would just drive ‘em around the place and show ‘em
     things that are progressing and things that Dad reckons needs improving and

TF   Some of the company wives I’ve spoken to um feel dissatisfied that they don’t
     get a separate wage, you know, that, or that, that they and their husbands are
     not considered managers. Is that? Were you ever aware of those kind of
     feelings from your parents or, or were they –

KP   No.
TF   They were happy and …..

KP   12:14:06:10    They were happy. They, my folks would have never brought
     us into that sort of thing. They just let us be kids and they don’t discuss those
     sort of things around us. That’s adult things and they let us be kids and we
     didn’t bring us into that. Mum and Dad are sort of um it’s probably a way that
     some people won’t understand it, but kids are to be seen and heard and we
     didn’t need to be listening to adult stuff. But when we became adults, we are
     in there now but they just let us be kids and didn’t bring any of that to our

TF   So going on then, what happened for you in high schooling?

KP   12:14:43:02    Oh that was scary. I went to Mt Isa and stayed with some
     friends and went to school at an Aboriginal school in Mt Isa and it was very
     different. Um I cried for the first 12 months every time I got dropped off and I
     was alright talking to Mum but just when I talked to Dad and he mentioned
     about going mustering or something, that was it. I was just a ball of tears and
     couldn’t handle it but the people I was staying with, they had horses so it
     wasn’t that I was missing out on horses. It was the mustering and camping out
     and all that. That was a bit sad having to not do that.

TF   So what made you, I mean from some people’s perspective to kind of, to
     muster and to be working as an adolescent and so on would sound like um a
     tough life. What did you miss being in Mt Isa?

KP   12:15:34:06    Just going out and um like going out and working and um
     sitting down at night round a campfire and having billy tea, like I still miss
     that now. Like I hang for a billy tea and people say well tea’s tea but until
     you’ve had both, you sort of know what the difference is. And just sittin’
     round the camp fire, laughing about what happened that day and who got
     chased by this beast or that. It’s sorta – a friendship gets built between the
     works out there.
TF   You would have been, presumably like you and your sister, the only, the only
     women in the stock camp. Is that right?

KP   Yep. Yep.

TF   So how did that feel? Was that ever difficult or that was just your, what was
     usual for you?

KP   12:16:17:02      Mmm. As we got older and um I think when I left college and
     came home, I had a bit of a oh you’re a girl. You know, you can’t do this and
     you can’t do that and rah rah but they weren’t that bad. They were pretty good
     and I guess I had the advantage that Dad was there and that but I’ve heard that
     things can get worse for girls but um I always found that if they’re going to be
     like that to me, I can do the same to them and if they treated me a way, I did it
     back and I earnt more respect from them than sittin’ there and cringin’ and
     thinking oh no, boys don’t – and I can’t do that because I’m a girl. Where it
     just mad me more determined to prove to them that I could do it and being a
     girl I had to do everything twice as good or twice as hard to say like hey, I’m
     at your level now. But it was always twice the amount of work I had to do.
     But I enjoyed it. It was sort of – I guess it’s all I knew really.

TF   So tell me a bit more then about this school. How was it you went to an
     Aboriginal school? Do you know how your parents chose that?

KP   12:17:23:00      Oh it was just closest, just the closest school to where I was
     staying. There was two different schools and this one was just the closest

TF   And when you say Aboriginal school, what, what do you actually mean? Like
     what was the school called and who ran it and who went there?

KP   Race Relations
     12:17:41:08      I can’t even think of the name of the school now. Um both
     schools had um Aboriginal kids at ‘em but that was just known more as
     Aboriginal because of the name and I can’t think of it. Ah Kalkadoon. That’s
     the name of it, yes. And the reason why I say that was I guess because it just
     seemed to be that I could mix with the Aboriginals better than the other girls
     because they were not trying to be something that they weren’t where the
     other girls, like you’d go in the toilet and you’d die from the smell of
     deodorant and hairspray and I never wore that sort of stuff and I nearly choked
     one day I reckon on the smell. It was terrible so, and they just seemed a bit
     upper class and thought they were better whereas I hung around better with
     Aboriginal girls because, and they brought me in and I wasn’t in their culture
     at all whereas the others, you had to oh do something to get into their culture
     and I didn’t have it.

TF   So were these Aboriginal kids that you’d known from Bedourie or just –

KP   No.

TF   You’d been going to Isa you felt more comfortable? Because you’d grown up
     with Aboriginal kids … ?

KP   Yeah. Yeah. Just, I didn’t know anyone and the first day of the school was
     just, just a nightmare for me. I just sat in the corner and all I wanted to do was
     just go home and I could’ve run away but 6 hours is a bit far too walk and
     there’s these um, this one white girl that came up and she was friends with the
     Aboriginal girls and I sort of just clinged with them really well. And they had
     a lot of respect for me and I had a lot of respect for them.   12:19:20:06

TF   And would the Aboriginal kids in Isa, would they have grown up with horses
     and stuff as well?

KP   No.

TF   But what did you have in common? Was it kind of an appreciation of the bush
KP   No it was just um respect for each others privacy and they were who they were
     and you were who you were and it was just respect. They weren’t trying to
     impress um anyone and I wasn’t and you didn’t have to um do your hair and
     smell pretty and look pretty to be with them. You could you just go as
     yourself and fit in. 12:19:55:18

TF   So in Mt Isa you discovered a whole way of like sort of girliedom that –

KP   Yeah.

TF   That Sandringham hadn’t …..

KP   12:20:04:16    It, it was different um mixing with the girls but then the boys
     were a different, different um I guess quality to our home too. They were all
     different because I’d, I’d grown up with adults and then when I was hanging
     around with boys and girls my age, they just seemed to be doing things that – I
     didn’t behave that way, running around and screaming and carrying on. It sort
     of wasn’t what I did.

TF   Going back actually to childhood, tell me about, did you see much of your,
     your Aunty Gladys?

KP   Braided Channels
     12:20:41:10    I used to see a fair bit of Aunty Gladys when, before I started
     school because I’d always get a lift to Windorah to see her and spend time
     with my cousins and that. Um, the best, I think the most common trip was
     going with the truckie. Jean Smith’s son. I used to jump in with him and go
     into Windorah and spend a few weeks with Aunty Gladys and then go home.
     Yeah, I had fun in there.

TF   And would that be holidays or your Mum wouldn’t mind if you missed a few
     weeks of school? You know what’s?
KP   12:21:16:00     Ah that was before I started school that – oh you weren’t
     allowed to miss school. School was very important and I can see that now but
     at that age it was –

TF   So as a 4 year old you’d be climbing up into a truck with a bloke that you
     knew just a little bit and heading off three or – because it’d be what? Four
     hundred, five hundred kilometers from your home?

KP   Yeah. Yeah, about that, yeah. Close to that. Yeah. But we had a fair bit to
     do with um Jimmie and that and used to see him a bit so it was, I don’t know,
     like an Uncle I guess in a way.

TF   Was there a sense like it seems to us that from kind of Boulia down through
     Birdsville and round to Windorah, everyone is inter-connected.

KP   Yep.

TF   Was that the way it felt?

KP   Yep.

TF   Do you want to just talk a bit about that?

KP   Braided Channels
     12:22:00:04     Oh it just seemed that um everyone knew everyone and um it
     was like a family. Three towns would oh yeah three towns’d join together as a
     family and that and we um we’d have sports days and it was the only time that
     we got to go to Birdsville and mingle with those kids other than the gymkana
     and the races so three times a year we saw ‘em but we um all seemed to be in
     a family and they just brought you in as a family even if you weren’t in the

TF   So what were those three towns?
KP   12:22:34:06    Bedourie, Birdsville and Windorah. Yeah. Pretty good.

TF   And so Jundah was kind of outside of that?

KP   Jundah was a bit further up. We never had much to do with Jundah.

TF   And do you think that kind of connection, Boulia, Boulia, Be – no hang on,
     Bedourie, Birdsville, Windorah, was the concept of Channel Country –

KP   Yeah.

TF   An important one? And if so, what was Channel Country? Like how did
     people use the term Channel Country as you were growing up?

KP   Um I don’t really know if I’ve got an answer for that one.

TF   Maybe they didn’t. I mean maybe –

KP   12:23:16:20    They just never, we never um said like the Channel Country,
     where is Bedourie. We – and at home like we always thought that as a desert.
     Like that’s called the desert and then the Channel Country, but we never spoke
     much about the Channel Country. Just when the floods come up you’d hear
     something but other than that it was like, it was all the same to us. We didn’t
     – oh they’re the Channel Country people and they’re the Desert people and
     that. We never divided people. We were just all one.

TF   But so Windorah, Birdsville, Bedourie were a kind of a stuck together?

KP   Yeah.

TF   Yeah.   And so describe the land at Sandringham.             What’s the land at
     Sandringham like and does it have a river, you know, like?

KP   Yeah.
TF   Paint a picture for me. I’ve been to Bedourie but not west.

KP   12:24:05:14     Um it’s, it’s different. It hasn’t got like, some areas you say
     they go to and they say oh it’s just mulga or whatever. We’ve um it’s gidgee.
     There’s a lot of gidgee trees which aren’t very high compared to Chinchilla so
     I’ve been informed a lot. But there’s um like sand hills and the more out the
     back, the more into the desert you get it’s just like sand hill after sand hill and
     um more towards Bedourie is um rock. There’s rocky hills and that and we’ve
     got a bit of Channel, oh well, for out there it’s a bit of Channel Country where
     Dad runs the bullocks and, and um that’s just um black soil and when it’s
     really dry you get big cracks in it and that and in good season it’s a lot of feed
     and – it’s a very pretty country. Very pretty country. Especially at this time
     of the year.

TF   What’s the river there?

KP   12:25:03:12     Eyers Creek. Actually it’s not a river. We just – it’s Eyers
     Creek, which comes from the young Georgina. Starts up at the Georgina and
     then ends up in Eyres Creek and it’s the creek that goes past Bedourie so
     we’ve got a bit of land over there.

TF   Because it’s lovely land, that creek near Bedourie.

KP   Yeah.

TF   It’s lush at the moment. It’s just gorgeous.

KP   Yep.

TF   So then tell me, when did you start getting involved in um is it rodeo? Is that
     the word for?

KP   Camp draft.
TF   Yeah.

KP   Father/Daughter
     12:25:35:20    Um I’ve been doing that ever since I can remember with Dad.
     Um I think I won my first draft – beat my brother for the first time which was
     like a big effort when I was 11 or somethin’. A junior draft. So ever since I
     can remember we’ve been drafting and that.

TF   So now drafting’s not a term that people in the city understand. Can you
     explain to me what is a camp draft and what, what’s your part in it?

KP   12:26:02:14    Camp drafting is um a way for people in the bush to have
     something to aim their horses for and it’s a competition and the whole um
     habit is, is that they have a mob of cattle can go from 8 to 10 in a yard and you
     take one out of this yard which we call a camp and you go out and you go
     around two pegs in a figure eight and you come up through another two which
     we call a gate and your score can go – the highest you can get is 26 um 75 and
     4 which I think goes up to 100 doesn’t it?

TF   76, 25 and 4. No, it adds up to more than 100. 105.

KP   No. Oh well it all adds to 100. Was it 26, 4 – must be 70. 70 sorry. I was
     looking at this other thing day and it confused me.

TF   So you’re good at camp drafting?

KP   Oh I dunno. I’d say I was average.

TF   Tell me what your kind of highest achievement is with camp drafting?

KP   12:27:11:06    Um I got second in the Juvenile Titles three years in a row.
     That’s all I could do. I couldn’t win it. No um I never had any big major
     achievements. I think my Dad had the best win. Oh there’s three main drafts
     in camp drafting. There’s a ….. gold cup and it’s like Melbourne Cup to race
     people and um Dad had won that in the Canning Downs in ’85 and he won the
     big Chinchilla one here last year and that was pretty good.

TF   So your Dad’s, would you say your Dad’s been the most important person in
     your life?

KP   Gender Relations
     Yep. Dad’s my idol. Yep, he is. When I grow up I wanna be as good as him.

TF   So how did you then, tell me about school and what your dreams were for the
     future when you were at school and, and how they have then played out.

KP   Gender Relations/Pastoral Company
     12:28:11:00      Well it didn’t really come to me in dreams but when I was in
     primary school I wanted to be the first manager, woman, the first woman to be
     a manager for Kidman. That was my aim and that but then I come across a
     few tasks when I was 18 that um sort of brought to my attention that it wasn’t
     what I wanted.

TF   So that’s interesting. I want you to tell me about that.

KP   12:28:37:14      I just um Dad was sort of working towards preparing me to um
     have males work under me and um he didn’t say that anyone was in charge.
     They’d talked to us all and went away for this week to buy some bulls and that
     and just said we had to break horses in. It was no big task and anyway I had a
     bit of a dispute with a bloke and I almost got my head punched in. I just, I
     stood my ground but I just thought oh wow! What would I do if he hadda hit

TF   So give me, tell me about, don’t give me his name, but tell me about that in a
     bit more detail.
KP   12:29:17:08    We were um breaking in and at home we don’t handle the
     horses. They come in wild and we rope ‘em and throw ‘em on their side and
     um we put hobbles on ‘em and then get ‘em up. And the quicker you can get
     ‘em up, the better it is for the horse. And anyway I said to the boys start .….
     ….. I said you know, if youse get back Sunday from town because they were
     going to town, um get our hobbles ready. We can get stuck into it and in the
     heat we can like just rest an hour longer if we get the horses done and that’s
     how Dad operates. You get the horses up to a stage and then in the heat you
     can let ‘em rest and yourself cool down and everything works better. Yeah
     yeah! Anyway they didn’t and I got mine all ready and we knew what horses
     we had and this young fellow got these hobbles and they wouldn’t have fitted
     a draught horse they were that big and he had the smallest footed horse there
     so, and he kept taking forever and I said look, we’ve gotta get this horse up. I
     said it’s been down for 20 minutes now. He put ‘em all on and the horse
     moved and they all fell off so threw mine to him and I said you just, you’ve
     gotta work a bit quicker and for some reason he blew up and strutted out the
     yard and come up to me and his face is there and I was just took a big deep
     breath and thought I've got a brother. I can handle it. And um the next thing
     there’s tears in his eyes and it was like all you do is pick on me rah rah and I
     just went phew! I’m not gunna get hit today and if I had’ve had someone else
     that was not so much a softie but a bit more meaner, he coulda come up and
     hit me and um I can say I hit my sister when we were little but that’s all I’ve
     hit. 12:31:09:14

TF   So how did – did you talk to your Dad? Did you tell him?

KP   12:31:13:18    I couldn’t, because Dad would’ve sacked him on the spot and
     that wasn’t dealing with it myself. I had to deal with it myself and all I did
     was just pull him aside and just said don’t do that again. I said that wasn’t
     nice. All I was trying to do was help you and I said and you come up and you
     were going to hit me and I didn’t understand it and he was all apologetic and
     he didn’t want to lose his job and I said I’m not going to dob you in. I said it’s
     one thing I’m not is a dobber. I said but there are other people around here
     and if it gets out, the old fellow’s going to get rid of you and not because he’s
     my Dad but because it’s his job. And it’s not fair for you to come up wanting
     to hit a girl. And he said oh but I didn’t. But anyway, those things happen.

TF   And how did that experience change your dream?

KP   Gender Relations
     12:32:07:00     Because um I don’t, I think I got sick of having to do twice so
     much that the boys did and still only, only coming just below their level. Like
     it seemed - I don’t know if it was just that crowd I was with or not but I, I
     worked and I worked and I did twice what they did and that but I still, if I was
     at that level, it was a bonus but most of the time I was sort of a bit below.

TF   So is what you’re saying that no matter how hard you tried you couldn’t do
     this stuff as well as the men or is what you’re saying that you could do it as
     well as them but you wouldn’t get recognised for doing it?

KP   12:32:48:14     Didn’t get recognised. Didn’t um more so in the blokes eyes
     um like my Dad’s my Dad and Dad loves all the girls but I didn’t care what
     Dad thought. It was just like hey boys, give me a chance. I can do it as good
     as youse. Why keep knocking me down? But that, that’s how it is I guess.

TF   So there was a sense that they wanted to take you down a peg?

KP   Mmm.

TF   This, this girl’s a bit cocky?

KP   12:33:17:04     No, um I don’t think it was so much that I was cocky. It just,
     all I wanted to do was just the same as them and they just – because I was a
     girl, I couldn’t do it, no matter even if I did, they just kept saying that it wasn’t
     I don’t know, it wasn’t the same. It just – like you’re a girl so you can’t be at
     the same level sort of thing or and that, yeah.